Microsoft Hosts: GNOME & Mono Festival of Love

[Detructor]

The GUI looks bad and is bad designed

argh, major brain fart: What it should've been is "The GUI looks bad and the application is slow"

YES, I see "real Java applications" all the time. They are used EVERY DAY to run ALL MANNER of web applications.

those are Javascript thingis, if I'm not mistaken...

If you think this is a property of THE LANGUAGE USED TO IMPLEMENT AN APPLICATION

You are 100% IGNORANT!!!

what I meant was how the GUI integrates with different desktops (KDE/Gnome/Windows), Java applications mostly look the same (except those few times where someone developed the GUI with another toolkit)

I guess that would mean that iTunes and MS Word are all JAVA applications, according to YOUR theory!

I've no clue about iTunes, never used it, as for MS Word (and all the other Office 2010 products) I like those ribbon thingis...much faster than those menus.

AH YES!!! The SELF APPOINTED EXPERT who DOESN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING!!!

it's called 'learning' and if someone thinks of himself as an expert in something IT related, he obviously isn't. To reflect your own knowledge and doings and to see possible errors is one major step which makes the difference between a bad IT guy and a good IT guy. Also typing everything in caps and using more than one exclamation mark at the end of a sentence is a good sign that the creator of that writing is mentally unbalanced at the time of the writing, I really hope that the next day will be a better day for you, it seems like you try to get rid some frustration/anger.

1. I use both VS as well as Eclipse at work and in my Opinion Eclipse (for Java) is much better than VS for C#. Ctrl+Space has worked perfectly in Eclipse for ages...

may be true, but what buggs me in Eclipse is that you need a ton of add-ins to make that thing useful. Also it's one of the really few programs I really don't like (GUI wise), I seriously don't know why but something on that thing just makes me hate it for how it looks. Maybe it's the colours or the icons...I don't know, something just makes me hate that thing, aside from the add-in plague.

@droidhacker and RealNC why such hate against Gnome? I like it (GnomeShell), it makes working much easier and faster than these old menu thingis. But then again...I also like the bash. And doing stuff on tty1.

[Death Knight]

Real man doesn't need C#.

I just uninstall mono from gnome3 and happy with it... Real man doesn't need C#.

[Detructor]

I just uninstall mono from gnome3 and happy with it... Real man doesn't need C#.

*men
*don't

also what you said doesn't make sense, but you could uninstall mono from your distribution/packaging system (for example using apt-get) but that would result in not being able to use Banshee (IMO the best music player the Linux community has to offer).

[0xBADCODE]

*men
*don't
also what you said doesn't make sense, but you could uninstall mono from your distribution/packaging system.

Ubuntu guys did a smart move and ditched this worthless stuff from 12.04 alltogether. Just 100Mb less of worthless crap on CD in one shot! Should I admit it's stupid and unnatural to bring 100Mb of crappy libs for 2 or 3 programs which have replacement with much less of req'd libs?

So to the hell MS and their runtime. It's not even really cross-platform due to lack of cross-platform ways of implementing widgets. You see, WinForms are not covered by patents promise and implemented quite bad. WPF is mostly not implemented. GTK# you say? Whoa! So in Windows you need to install Mono, GTK# and then you can run your program. Leaving user with 2 copies of the same thing in system. How smart and convenient. You can't even reuse system's own runtime.

That's a festival of love, sure: if you deal with MS you will usually end being f...d up!

[directhex]

Just 100Mb less of worthless crap on CD in one shot! Should I admit it's stupid and unnatural to bring 100Mb of crappy libs for 2 or 3 programs which have replacement with much less of req'd libs?

Do you think lying helps your argument? Serious question here. Do you think that if you lie about things, that your argument is stronger?

The full footprint for three apps plus the runtime needed to run them, in 12.04, was about 50 meg - up from a couple of years ago, due to the need for older versions of some libraries like GTK+ and Webkit.

[directhex]

You can't even reuse system's own runtime.

Also a simple lie. Please try to argue based on reality.

[kraftman]

*men
*don't

also what you said doesn't make sense, but you could uninstall mono from your distribution/packaging system (for example using apt-get) but that would result in not being able to use Banshee (IMO the best music player the Linux community has to offer).

No kidding. Banshee is one of the crappiest and I'm not talking about taste. There were so many problems with it that Ubuntu decided to replace it by Rhythmbox. Amarok is the best IMO.

[0xBADCODE]

Do you think lying helps your argument? Serious question here. Do you think that if you lie about things, that your argument is stronger?

The full footprint for three apps plus the runtime needed to run them, in 12.04, was about 50 meg - up from a couple of years ago, due to the need for older versions of some libraries like GTK+ and Webkit.

I guess I'm just careless a bit about some worthless bull***t so I don't bother with exact measurements and quoted very approximate amount of runtime and libs I had to deinstall on some Ubuntu version I tried.

And even 50 megz of libs is absolutely moron to run just some 2 or 3 programs who have alternatives allow to avoid bringing 50 megz of crap. Not to mention I dislike awful startup times of .net programs and idea of keeping ton of crap on HDD. Full .NET 4.5 implementation takes several gigz of assemblies on HDD. So either it would be feature-incomplete half-wrecked stuff or it have to be resource hog. Choosing from these options I prefer yet another one: "kill it with fire". Let's windows ppl enjoy by 20 sec program startup times, gigz of assemblies, hundreds of megs ram wasted by every program and so on.

[0xBADCODE]

Amarok is the best IMO.

I like Audacious, Deadbeef and qmmp. At least those are players and meant to actually play music. Not to manage "albums" or "tracks" or whatever in some strange and awkward ways while lacking very basic music playback settings. Amarok is more CD ROM covers manager than player .

[directhex]

I guess I'm just careless a bit about some worthless bull***t so I don't bother with exact measurements and quoted very approximate amount of runtime and libs I had to deinstall on some Ubuntu version I tried.

Amarok takes 10 gig! (rounding up to the nearest 10 gig)

And even 50 megz of libs is absolutely moron to run just some 2 or 3 programs

I never said 50 meg of libs, I said 50 meg for the apps, AND the runtime, AND the libs. 50 meg total

who have alternatives allow to avoid bringing 50 megz of crap. Not to mention I dislike awful startup times of .net programs and idea of keeping ton of crap on HDD.

I think we already determined that you have difficulty counting, so I'm not sure your "ton" number there carries much weight

Full .NET 4.5 implementation takes several gigz of assemblies on HDD. So either it would be feature-incomplete half-wrecked stuff or it have to be resource hog.

I don't think you really understand how packages work. Figures.

Mono on Debian/Ubuntu is split into 201 distinct packages. Only the required pieces are ever installed.

Don't need WCF? It's not installed.

Don't need WinForms? It's not installed.

Don't need PostgreSQL database support? It's not installed.

Don't need ASP.NET? It's not installed.

Only the exact, specific libraries used by an app are installed. No more, no less. The footprint on disk required to run a Mono "hello world" is only a couple of meg higher than Python, and lower than Perl.

Not to mention that I find it utterly bizarre that the only people who gripe about whether or not Mono is "feature complete" are people who rage against it. No WPF support? Nobody making apps for Linux cares.

Choosing from these options I prefer yet another one: "kill it with fire". Let's windows ppl enjoy by 20 sec program startup times, gigz of assemblies, hundreds of megs ram wasted by every program and so on.

Then you'll be pleased to read http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTEwMTg which will eliminate the startup time of Mono apps.

As for waste, nope. Mono almost always uses less RAM than the equivalent Python, and always uses less than the equivalent Java. It's also almost always faster than Python or Ruby.

Raging against Mono on Linux is raging against availability of games (3 Humble Bundle games, for example: Bastion, Spacechem, Atom Zombie Smasher)

Raging against Mono on Linux is raging against competitive performance for managed apps (i.e. the balance of RAM and CPU and disk used by Mono is highly competitive with any other popular managed language framework used on Linux)

Raging against Mono on Linux is raging against helping people move from Windows to Linux (e.g. people with university courses taught in C# or VB.NET can use Ubuntu instead of Windows)

But I doubt you care much about that. It's all about the holy war, isn't it?