Alan Cox Calls Fedora 18 "The Worst Red Hat Distro"

[birdie]

well birdie, maybe it is time for you to stop posting bullshit?
LINUX has stable APIs AND ABIs for more 20 years.

Internal constructs are neither APIs nor ABIs.

Please stop posting until you started to think. People like you with their 'give me. NOW' attitude and no clue at all make me sick.

Stable API/ABI? Are you out of your mind? I guess either you are batsh*t crazy or you don't understand what ABI/APIs are.

Look here http://upstream-tracker.org/ - and keep telling me about imaginary stable API/ABIs. I've never seen such an idiot before.

Maybe this http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Docum...i_nonsense.txt will set you straight.

[GreatEmerald]

You should not even have to run anything as root, except some commands, in which case "su" in a terminal is better than "sudo", because with sudo you either constantly have to type the damn sudo command

Oh man! Writing five symbols is just so difficult! Especially since there are few tasks where you need extra privileges in rapid succession, anyway.

[uid313]

In conclusion, you don't give a five year old the keys to the car and tell him to drive. By the same token, you control who has root access in GUI mode.

Even if you want to do an administrative task from a GUI you still do not login as root!

You run 'gksu nautilus' to run an instance of the file manager with superuser privileges.

[eliac]

At least one poster in this thread has confirmed that this is not the case.

What users point out is things that used to just work are now hidden behind obscure configuration options. The continued dumbing down of the interface until it is useful for exactly nobody. Hiding complexity from the user in a way that makes the system actually more complex and less predictable (remember the disappearing shutdown option issue from the dedoimedo review).

...

Well, there's a bug where the item doesn't appear until the next time gnome shell is restarted. Still, the designed behaviour is exactly the one I mentioned: no log out if you're the only user _and_ there are no other session options in GDM.
And frankly, most users don't care about "obscure configuration options", because most users won't have to change a thing. The minority that has reason to - and I'm among them - has no trouble doing so.

Let's be clear: most normal users out there don't set up a workstation as a file server, nor do they install multiple desktop environments on their computer. A good percentage of us do that _because we are a niche of tech-savy users with different needs and skills_. But if you design for the mainstream users, then you have to choose your defaults and behaviour in a way that makes sense for them, not for your current actual niche.
How many real users do you know that had a reason to log out in a single user single - single session case but were unable to set the needed gsetting? Because I know nobody that wasn't already looking for a reason to NERDRAGE about Red Hat conspiracies and "dumbing down of interfaces" and that had real trouble with this issue.

As for the "review": bugs happen. I never met the specific bug he mentions and I don't know if he even reported that. I know that he harped about the boxes icon (because he apparently can't _understand_ what it represents, so it must be broken) and then was unable to actually use the boxes to manage his VMs, going on to literally draw troll faces over the window of an application when he couldn't understand how it worked.
He's free to dislike anything and to critique anything, but I think I'll not take him as an unbiased source when it comes to the software quality of Gnome Shell.

[V!NCENT]

Oh man! Writing five symbols is just so difficult! Especially since there are few tasks where you need extra privileges in rapid succession, anyway.

I remember sudo being 'invented' for people who have difficulty remembering that they are going to do something as root.

Since I can remember having logged in as root, and even get reminded by "#" before every command I type, I find it to be absolutely useless to remind myself of something I haven't forgotten, since I would type sudo in the first place, so I haven't forgot (can you see why this is batshit retarted?), by having to type the same five characters in front of every fscking root command that's not doing anything by itself at all...

And while we are at it, let's change any short command into something like "remove -allMyFuckingFilesFromDirectory root", so people can't accidently type "#rm -rf". So much more idiot friendly!

[pingufunkybeat]

Stable API/ABI? Are you out of your mind? I guess either you are batsh*t crazy or you don't understand what ABI/APIs are.

Linux is a kernel.

He is talking about the kernel, and you are talking about bonobo and libzip. That makes no sense.

Kernel-userspace interfaces of linux are indeed very stable and rarely change. Otherwise you would have to recompile all your software every time you upgrade the kernel.

[birdie]

Linux is a kernel.

He is talking about the kernel, and you are talking about bonobo and libzip. That makes no sense.

Kernel-userspace interfaces of linux are indeed very stable and rarely change. Otherwise you would have to recompile all your software every time you upgrade the kernel.

Firstly, don't stand up for him, he didn't mention the kernel at all.

Secondly, userspace APIs in the kernel do change and change quite often - for the past ten years a very big number of /proc files have been removed or obsoleted, you cannot run old glibc on top of new kernels, etc., etc., etc.

Thirdly, stop talking of Linux as only the kernel. It's never been true - Linux is meant to be the kernel plus GNU user space applications.

[Hibbelharry]

As an Ubuntu user I wanted to give Fedora another try on one of my machines. I think it's always good to see what other do better or worse. In the past rpm has gotten me far away from Fedora each time i had to fiddle with it, but i thought they might deliver a better Gnome 3 Experience than Ubuntu.

I prepared an USB-Stick with F18 on it and tried to boot into Live-Mode. Whenever i tried this, I got stuck at the loginscreen with no user available to login. I found a bug report about Login Problems and that people have just to click on "liveuser" to login, but there wasn't even a choice. When i enter that username manually, i get another stupid error (different from bad login/password). This happens on 3 of 4 different machines i tested with different USB Sticks. The only computer which successfully booted into the Live Environment bailed out in anaconda. All of those PC are running Ubuntu successfully.

After this experience i think F18 is seriously absolute crap and while beeing late for a while still seems like a rushed out and unusable release.I personally won't touch Fedora again for the next year and I guess Alan Cox is totally right.

[JanC]

And I agree with him on the orange color. It's horrible. I seriously don't know what Ubuntu's design team was thinking.

The amount of orange in Ubuntu/Unity is fairly limited, but in any case it's way better than blue...

(And obviously, colours are a personal thing...)

[JanC]

That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out.

That sounds like a decision made by a developer/designer who never talks to real world users and their use cases...