Miguel de Icaza Starts New Company To Drive Mono

[XorEaxEax]

Finally, an aside: You asked why one doesn't see more software written with mono. Perhaps it's because every time someone tries to write a piece of software with mono, they get shit on by the FOSS community. Consider that.

I totally agree with you on what is the big draw for C# (and Java), which is rapid development in the enterprise space. However, when it comes to desktop software, 'getting shit done in three weeks' is seldom the primary goal. Rather, desktop software that ends up 'preferred' is usually that which performs it's tasks quickly while using minimal resources. I know I certainly prefer such software.

Obviously there's alot of desktop software where performance or memory usage doesn't really make a big difference between a native C/C++ implementation versus a C#/Java version, but in this space interpreted languages like Python seems often preferred. I predict that Java and C# will continue to dominate the enterprise sector but I doubt that they will gain much traction on the desktop (from what I've seen, not even on Windows has C#/NET made it big on the desktop).

Maybe I'm biased though, my primary development languages are C/C++ and Python

[kraftman]

Besides, KDE sucks.

What I will say here will scary you:

Gnome will die! Icaza has started its development and you know de things he starts simply dies.

[ciplogic]

But tell me something... What high-profile killer software is written in Gtk and Mono? Why is serious killer software on Windows written in C++ on top of Win32?

The idea that I'm getting with. Net and C# folk so far is that they don't even know what an API is.They learned C# and. Net crap in school and simply end up doing sysadmin shit (no offence, this is a software engineering turnaround ) instead of writing anything even remotely serious.

So BlaclStar, mister awesome, what have you written in that perfect language of yours that rival high quality Qt applications? Do you even get remotely close? If Qt and C++ sucks so much, then why does all good software get written in it (or win32 for that manner)?

First of all NOT all applications are written in Qt and C++.
Firefox does not use Qt, Mono (as runntime) does not use C++, the killer applications as far as I know for a regular person are OpenOffice (uses VCL a custom UI toolkit), a media player (right now Mono based by default in Ubuntu).
Applications that are not written in Qt are all mainstream applications. Photoshop Elements is the single Photoshop in entire suite, and no plugins were integrated with "superior" Qt's plugin API.
Let's compare mainstream applications you can download today in .Net/Mono: MonoDevelop/SharpDevelop are replacements for Microsoft Visual C#. A WebServer included (XSP/ASP.Net) with .Net runtimes. The same happens with Java.
Which is today's competitor for Paint.Net? For mainstream users? Gimp?
F-Spot against Shotwell shows that before it appears a language close enough to C#, for 4 years at least it was no valid replacement in Gtk+ area. GtkMM with C++ did not make such of a difference. Tomboy Notes was replaced in 3 years with a C++ equivalent in 3-4 years.
As of today I know a technology that have mainly no replacement: Moonlight Desktop (a Silverlight based package) for people investigating how to put animations in their desktop.
QML as replacement appears after two years late compared with WPF/XAML by default in Visual Studio. Yet, the Nokia engineers were smart enough to not use C++ to program in it, but JavaScript. Gnome Shell? Again JavaScript. Why not C++ if is such of a killer language (to create Qt and KDE, in rest all run like from plague)?
The last killer application that everyone may use that certainly does not use Qt, and probably just little C++, is SecondLife.
Qt killer application? As far as I know is only one that a lot of people use: Opera Browser, which uses a Qt3 version... And for me, VirtualBox.
On Windows is certainly less used in raw downloads than SharpDevelop, the easiest to date free IDE to make small application development.
Conclusion: Qt and C++ sucks

[BlackStar]

Qt killer application? As far as I know is only one that a lot of people use: Opera Browser, which uses a Qt3 version...

Opera no longer uses Qt.

[ciplogic]

Opera no longer uses Qt.

Thank you, great point... I installed Opera (beta) on Linux and you're right, no Qt library is mapped! Seems that Gtk is always better

[kraftman]

Thank you, great point... I installed Opera (beta) on Linux and you're right, no Qt library is mapped! Seems that Gtk is always better

It better slows Linux down, that's for sure.

[energyman]

the best thing is:

The Mono guys were laid off - because the customers of Novell/Attachmate didn't ask for Mono software.

So his latest project is pretty much a 'set up shop, spout some shit about my awesomeness until a big player buys this crap' scheme. Just like Ximian

edit: and opera might have stopped using qt - chromium is using it.

[energyman]

Opera no longer uses Qt.

neither is gtk needed. It all depends on the configure flags.

[kraftman]

edit: and opera might have stopped using qt - chromium is using it.

Do you mean it's possible to run Chromium with Qt?

[energyman]

well it does pull in Qt libs:
ldd /usr/lib64/chromium-browser/chrome
linux-vdso.so.1 => (0x00007fff0730a000)
libpthread.so.0 => /lib64/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007f833bf0b000)
libdl.so.2 => /lib64/libdl.so.2 (0x00007f833bd07000)
libicui18n.so.48 => /usr/lib64/libicui18n.so.48 (0x00007f833b92e000)
libicuuc.so.48 => /usr/lib64/libicuuc.so.48 (0x00007f833b5bc000)
libicudata.so.48 => /usr/lib64/libicudata.so.48 (0x00007f833a263000)
libm.so.6 => /lib64/libm.so.6 (0x00007f8339fdd000)
libX11.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libX11.so.6 (0x00007f8339c98000)
libXrender.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libXrender.so.1 (0x00007f8339a8d000)
libXss.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libXss.so.1 (0x00007f8339889000)
libXext.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libXext.so.6 (0x00007f8339675000)
librt.so.1 => /lib64/librt.so.1 (0x00007f833946c000)
libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f8338e23000)
libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f8338b6b000)
libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 (0x00007f833895d000)
libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f833873d000)
libcairo.so.2 => /usr/lib64/libcairo.so.2 (0x00007f833840e000)
libpng14.so.14 => /usr/lib64/libpng14.so.14 (0x00007f83381e2000)
libpango-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libpango-1.0.so.0 (0x00007f8337f94000)
libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libfreetype.so.6 (0x00007f8337cf7000)
libfontconfig.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libfontconfig.so.1 (0x00007f8337abf000)
libgobject-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgobject-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f833786b000)
libgthread-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgthread-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f8337666000)
libglib-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f8337347000)
libevent-2.0.so.5 => /usr/lib64/libevent-2.0.so.5 (0x00007f83370ff000)
libz.so.1 => /lib64/libz.so.1 (0x00007f8336ee7000)
libjpeg.so.8 => /usr/lib64/libjpeg.so.8 (0x00007f8336c99000)
libsmime3.so => /usr/lib64/libsmime3.so (0x00007f8336a6a000)
libnssutil3.so => /usr/lib64/libnssutil3.so (0x00007f833684a000)
libnss3.so => /usr/lib64/libnss3.so (0x00007f8336514000)
libplc4.so => /usr/lib64/libplc4.so (0x00007f833630f000)
libnspr4.so => /usr/lib64/libnspr4.so (0x00007f83360cf000)
libresolv.so.2 => /lib64/libresolv.so.2 (0x00007f8335eb4000)
libxml2.so.2 => /usr/lib64/libxml2.so.2 (0x00007f8335b5a000)
libxslt.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libxslt.so.1 (0x00007f8335920000)
libwebp.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libwebp.so.0 (0x00007f83356f9000)
libcups.so.2 => /usr/lib64/libcups.so.2 (0x00007f83354a6000)
libgcrypt.so.11 => /usr/lib64/libgcrypt.so.11 (0x00007f8335227000)
libbz2.so.1 => /lib64/libbz2.so.1 (0x00007f8335017000)
libvpx.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libvpx.so.0 (0x00007f8334d80000)
libasound.so.2 => /usr/lib64/libasound.so.2 (0x00007f8334a9b000)
libexpat.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libexpat.so.1 (0x00007f8334870000)
libFLAC.so.8 => /usr/lib64/libFLAC.so.8 (0x00007f8334635000)
libspeex.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libspeex.so.1 (0x00007f833441a000)
libdbus-glib-1.so.2 => /usr/lib64/libdbus-glib-1.so.2 (0x00007f83341f2000)
libdbus-1.so.3 => /usr/lib64/libdbus-1.so.3 (0x00007f8333fa9000)
libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.5.2/libstdc++.so.6 (0x00007f8333c9a000)
libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib64/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007f8333a83000)
libc.so.6 => /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x00007f83336d8000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007f833c129000)
libxcb.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libxcb.so.1 (0x00007f83334b8000)
libXfixes.so.3 => /usr/lib64/libXfixes.so.3 (0x00007f83332b1000)
libatk-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libatk-1.0.so.0 (0x00007f833308e000)
libgio-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgio-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f8332d5d000)
libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libpangoft2-1.0.so.0 (0x00007f8332b2f000)
libgmodule-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgmodule-2.0.so.0 (0x00007f833292b000)
libXi.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libXi.so.6 (0x00007f833271b000)
libXrandr.so.2 => /usr/lib64/libXrandr.so.2 (0x00007f8332512000)
libXcursor.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libXcursor.so.1 (0x00007f8332307000)
libXcomposite.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libXcomposite.so.1 (0x00007f8332104000)
libXdamage.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libXdamage.so.1 (0x00007f8331f01000)
libpixman-1.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libpixman-1.so.0 (0x00007f8331c88000)
libEGL.so.1 => /usr/lib64/libEGL.so.1 (0x00007f8331a76000)
libQtGui.so.4 => /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtGui.so.4 (0x00007f8330dc0000)
libQtCore.so.4 => /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtCore.so.4 (0x00007f833091f000)
libxcb-shm.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libxcb-shm.so.0 (0x00007f833071c000)
libxcb-render.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libxcb-render.so.0 (0x00007f8330512000)
fglrx-libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib64/fglrx-libGL.so.1 (0x00007f833030b000)
libplds4.so => /usr/lib64/libplds4.so (0x00007f8330107000)
libgnutls.so.26 => /usr/lib64/libgnutls.so.26 (0x00007f832fe57000)
libgpg-error.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libgpg-error.so.0 (0x00007f832fc53000)
libogg.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libogg.so.0 (0x00007f832fa4c000)
libXau.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libXau.so.6 (0x00007f832f848000)
libXdmcp.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libXdmcp.so.6 (0x00007f832f642000)
libSM.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libSM.so.6 (0x00007f832f439000)
libICE.so.6 => /usr/lib64/libICE.so.6 (0x00007f832f21c000)
libtasn1.so.3 => /usr/lib64/libtasn1.so.3 (0x00007f832f00a000)
libuuid.so.1 => /lib64/libuuid.so.1 (0x00007f832ee05000)