Is Valve's Steam Client Bad & Damaging For Linux?

[kenjitamura]

Linux has a great Open Source application for just about every need a desktop user has, yet just about everyone agrees that games on linux have been terrible until just recently. That brings me to a different conclusion than what most other users seem to have found for the gaming situation on linux.

My conclusion: There aren't many open source developers that care to make games.

And aside from that I also don't think many linux-users even play any native open-source linux games.

If my conclusion is correct then there shouldn't be a problem with welcoming closed-source games. If there aren't many linux users playing open source games it means there aren't many users for closed-source games to even steal from open source games. And if there aren't many open-source game developers, it really shouldn't be a problem for the linux developer community for there to be commercial options.

Finally, what difference will it make for there to be the same applications available for linux users as window and mac users? The majority of open source linux applications are already cross-platform and would be available for a linux user to still use if they wanted to move to Windows. The reason linux users are using linux and not Windows is definitely not because of the linux specific application selection. While conversely, the reason most Windows users stay with Windows (apart from the normal windows user not being competent with computers) is because there are many windows specific applications that can't be found on linux. I don't see how the linux community can really get worse from the status quo by welcoming closed-source games.

These worries make zero sense to me.

[Alejandro Nova]

I'll state my point again.

If you want to speak about technicalities, code and the like, I'm not, unlike almost all Phoronix readers, the right man. I come from the politics world. So, based on what I know, if you want Software Freedom, as a principle, to suceed, you need to be inclusive, non-dogmatic, and pragmatic. Pragmatism beats ideological purity always, unless you are in a dictatorship. Go and talk with any political scientist you know: he will tell you the same.

So, if you think Steam goes against the "core principles of Software Freedom, is antithetical with the Linux spirit and is an immoral piece of software that should be banned from every Free desktop to preserve ultimate freedom", you are pushing all those guys who want Half-Life, Portal or Trine to Windows, forcing them to use Windows, a system "antithetical with the Linux spirit", and, worse, you are depriving yourself of the chance to state your point (software freedom is better for an user, because it turns users into citizens, and it brings awareness of the perils of closed-source systems). If your ideology is so important, then you have to create chances to state it. Steam on Linux is such a chance, so, please, don't waste it on the grounds of ideological purity.

If you don't believe me, please, how many Fourth International Communist people do you know? Trotskyists are always obsessed with ideological purity, and believe me, there aren't many of them.

[soupbowl]

I'll state my point again.

If you want to speak about technicalities, code and the like, I'm not, unlike almost all Phoronix readers, the right man. I come from the politics world. So, based on what I know, if you want Software Freedom, as a principle, to suceed, you need to be inclusive, non-dogmatic, and pragmatic. Pragmatism beats ideological purity always, unless you are in a dictatorship. Go and talk with any political scientist you know: he will tell you the same.

So, if you think Steam goes against the "core principles of Software Freedom, is antithetical with the Linux spirit and is an immoral piece of software that should be banned from every Free desktop to preserve ultimate freedom", you are pushing all those guys who want Half-Life, Portal or Trine to Windows, forcing them to use Windows, a system "antithetical with the Linux spirit", and, worse, you are depriving yourself of the chance to state your point (software freedom is better for an user, because it turns users into citizens, and it brings awareness of the perils of closed-source systems). If your ideology is so important, then you have to create chances to state it. Steam on Linux is such a chance, so, please, don't waste it on the grounds of ideological purity.

If you don't believe me, please, how many Fourth International Communist people do you know? Trotskyists are always obsessed with ideological purity, and believe me, there aren't many of them.

Agree 100% and said better then I could have.

[maxiaojun]

Stop masturbating on LSB.

No one give a shit to LSB (any more).

Please check https://www.linuxbase.org/lsb-cert/p...dir.php?by_lsb

Only two Linux distribution developed by China-based companies get LSB 4.1 Certified.

Only one software product get LSB 4.0 Certified. Its homepage is not longer available; points to irrelevant site.

BTW, LSB 4.1 is very outdated, which should be obvious for anyone read it. Bear in mind that RHEL 5.6 passes LSB 4.0.

[GreatEmerald]

EDIT: About DRM on steam.... It is almost entirely invisible. Whether a game uses DRM or not legitimate end users are pretty much oblivious to it. Thats a good thing. If a publisher is going to require DRM then there is no better than steams as far as end user experience goes.

To me it is highly visible. Last time I used it, it took a long time to authenticate, even if trying to do nothing more than launch a map editor. And even if that is something you don't mind, it's invisible only as long as nothing goes wrong. Whoops, your ISP is having problems - have fun being locked out of all your games! Whoops, Valve servers are offline - have fun being locked out of all your games! Whoops, Valve went bankrupt - have fun being locked out of all your games!

And aside from that I also don't think many linux-users even play any native open-source linux games.

SuperTux is really good, especially the latest releases. Unlike other platformers, they actually have taken some very interesting mechanic decisions, like throwing away the concept of lives entirely. The only thing is that its progress has been very slow.

FreCiv is also pretty good, although I find it to be a bit confusing due to all of its complexity.

[Vadi]

FreeCiv is good, been playing it with my gf recently. Very well researched and quality game.

[DDF420]

Valve has given me the freedom to play games i once needed WINE or windows for. Gabe mentioned he would like to port every game sold through steam over to Linux. Whether that comes to fruition or not is yet to be seen,though new games are constantly being added to the list and for the console to be anywhere near successful, it has to happen .As a gamer i want the best hardware and graphics driver for the job of playing games and care little about it being closed or open.Some may feel differently and i understand their view but is valve/steam/anything proprietary really hurting them or the community as a whole if folk choose or not choose something thats either DRM/proprietary .

Valve is helping game producers pay more attention to GNU/linux and OpenGL as a whole.Along the way maybe swaying those direct3d only game engines to rethink their next engine design or at the least start supporting OpenGL

As a gamer i could name literally hundreds of folk who use GNU/linux but still need to keep windows around simply for gaming .Most hold onto the dream of eventually not needing to dual boot and the even bigger dream of AAA games being released to GNU/linux, without performance loss, on the very same day as windows/playstation/xbox .

Valve with their steam box and presumably with its release a new source engine/game ,will help drive other game publishers /producers to treat GNU/linux more seriously.From my understanding valves version of the steam box will be the higher end standalone version. Surely then, all newer games to be compatible with said console will also then be compatible for all Linux distro's, another win for Linux gamers who don't mind proprietary games .

If the valve console is even half the success of ps3/xbox wont that then equate to possibly millions of sales for game makers/producers thus lifting that sales number barrier most game makers use as an excuse to not support Linux straight away.Since valves version of the steam box is going to be linux based,booting straight into big screen mode,wont this again be good for the entire Linux community? Steam has a huge modding community. If gaming on linux is a success,more the point if valves Linux steam box is a success, surely that will bring a large percentage of those modders/indi game makers to the opensource/linux world.Maybe a few will even join existing Linux opensource game projects and bring them some much needed love or at the very least help expand the community.

Gamers have been living with DRM for the longest time.Steam is the lessor of evils

Steam/valve make GNU/Linux DE more family friendly. A lot of familys are immediately turned off GNU/linux distros after learning their kids can no longer play their current PC games. If that barrier is lifted more kids could start growing up with GNU/linux improving and growing the community as a whole.

[DDF420]

Whoops, your ISP is having problems - have fun being locked out of all your games! Whoops, Valve servers are offline - have fun being locked out of all your games! Whoops, Valve went bankrupt - have fun being locked out of all your games!

You only have to connect to steam/valve once per game then after activate them for offline mode. To easy

As for losing everything with the company going broke those are the same arguments used by windows users when valve made us head online yet it didn't stop valves success. besides this subject has been brought up millions of times and valves reply was simply if it happened they would bring out a patch allowing folk to continue playing without the need of valves servers/verification process.

[GreatEmerald]

You only have to connect to steam/valve once per game then after activate them for offline mode. To easy

As for losing everything with the company going broke those are the same arguments used by windows users when valve made us head online yet it didn't stop valves success. besides this subject has been brought up millions of times and valves reply was simply if it happened they would bring out a patch allowing folk to continue playing without the need of valves servers/verification process.

Yes, you could use offline mode. The question is, how many people actually do that? And IIRC offline mode also disables game updates.

That may have been their reply, but their EULA says otherwise. It states that they are under no obligation to do anything if they go bankrupt. They may or may not create such a patch. If they meant what they publicly said, they would have put it in the EULA as well, but obviously they didn't.

[DanLamb]

Most of the complaints expressed in the thread are just because Steam is closed-source software.

This is a complete misstatement of the objections. Open source isn't an important criteria.

It is important to know the major details and terms of this service if we are going to fairly evaluate it and potentially advocate for it as a community, as this site is doing:

• How much revenue is Valve asking for?
• What rights does Valve take regarding pricing?
• What other rights are they asking for?

These aren't obscure issues or things only niche fanatics would care about. These are the major terms.

How can we reason about Steam if we don't know the major terms? That's like asking someone if a car or house is a good purchase without letting them know the price.

Apple's app store, Google's app store, and Amazon's app store are all closed source (afaik); that is fine. However, the major terms, like revenue sharing and other rights are completely out in the open. We can freely post them and reason about them in public.

Fortunately, most Linux gamers don't see this way as Steam being a detriment to Linux.

Clearly Michael (op) is decidedly pro-Steam. Do you even know the full contract details that developers must sign yourself?

Even if Steam is your favorite, shouldn't you encourage competition? Shouldn't you similarly champion EA's Origin? And even more so, champion Ubuntu's store front? And open source products like Desura and RunnersBox (I've never used them and am not personally interested).

What do you make of Randy Pitchford's comments?

Valve supporting Linux has been the most significant boost to the Linux desktop in many years, perhaps ever.

How about the fact that basic laptop hardware compatability and consumer functionality has closed most of the gap with Windows/Mac and in some cases surpassed the competition? Or how about the fact that many major productivity uses have really taken off on Linux? How about the fact that the world's best web browsers are now on Linux?

I'd have Gabe's child if I could.

I hear this euphoric Valve/Steam/Gabe love a lot, and by itself, it's great. It's great to love things. But it's a problem when love and emotions substitute for actual reason and you are advocating for larger-scale, community-wide, competition-free adoption.

Randy's wise words:

I love Valve games, and I do business with the company. But, I’m just saying, Steam isn’t the answer. Steam helps us as customers, but it’s also a money grab, and Valve is exploiting a lot of people in a way that’s not totally fair. Valve is taking a larger share than it should for the service its providing. It’s exploiting a lot of small guys. For us big guys, we’re going to sell the units and it will be fine.