Canonical Continues Working On XMir Performance

[DDF420]

Posted by Dee
What they did was, they backstabbed the entire Linux ecosystem. Instead of backing the modern next-gen display server they had promised, they made their own in-house solution, which is basically just a rip-off of Wayland and other people's code. XMir is a plain xerox copy of XWayland. Libhybris was first developed for Wayland, by Jolla employees, to allow Wayland to use Android drivers, then Canonical ripped it off and even tried to present it as their own work.

What a fucking carry on one minute you claim fragmentation the next a carbon copy.

So, everyone pretty much saw the advantages of Wayland, and that we should be moving towards it - even Canonical. Shuttleworth himself said "Canonical fully supports Wayland, Ubuntu will use Wayland in the future". Every other major distro, every desktop environment and toolkit, Mesa, the rest of the graphics stack, threw their support towards Wayland - so we had a clear, easy migration path away from X: Distros could provide Wayland with XWayland for legacy X apps, while most apps would be getting Wayland support via modern toolkits such as GTK3, Qt5 or EFL. Legacy apps that still use older toolkits would use Xwayland as rootless application-specific X servers and everything would be fine. To top that, we were getting mobile Linux systems (Sailfish, Tizen) using Wayland, Wayland was being adopted in embedded and IVI systems - we were finally getting a display server that would unify the entire Linux ecosystem, not just on the desktop but everywhere. You'd have to be a fool not to see the benefits of this.

what a fucking carry on. So in the end we end up Mir and wayland doing the same thing in a slightly different way............ what a travesty!!!

Of course, as so often happens, someone dropped the ball - and this was Canonical. What they did was abominable.

Abominable............ lmfao what a fucking carry on!!!

What they did was, they backstabbed the entire Linux ecosystem

O please they have done nothing wrong

So now, instead of that clean, easy migration path to Wayland, we have this competitor - Mir, and no one really likes it - the toolkits, other DE's, etc. - none of them really want anything to do with it.

Even if true so what? Its a problem for ubuntu/canonical
It wont affect you since you wont ever go near it so why carry on about it day after day. Get a fucking life loser

The worst impact will be on software that doesn't for some reason use toolkits, but needs to talk to the display server directly - think: games

Blah blah blah games on wayland are going to face the same fucking issues.Since you don't use ubuntu why such a concern anyway?

I speak for myself only, and I'm sure there are some who really, really dislike Canonical and Ubuntu for whatever reasons, but I don't. I like Ubuntu and wish only good things for it. I really would like to see Canonical succeed in creating a mainstream Linux OS, bringing desktop Linux to the mainstream.

liar

posted by synaptix
I do remember Shuttleworth saying Ubuntu was fully supporting Wayland and would eventually be moving to Wayland, which was great considering that means my current distro (Xubuntu) would most likely follow suite.

I thought Wayland? Cool, something new that would be better than Xorg (Xorg is still great, but does have it's problems). I was happy to see the most populated distro in Linux supporting this project.

But then Canonical vomited out Mir. Ubuntu will be using Mir from now on soon enough, but I'm not so sure about it's derivatives such as Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Lubuntu and of course Linix Mint as well. Think I read somewhere that Xubuntu would be staying on Xorg and wouldn't go Mir.

What a travesty he changed his mind gaaaaawd

posted by Bo$$
I never baited anything.

LMFAO ................please !

[DDF420]

posted by Vim_User
Actually, it is a really dumb move to stab those in the back that you are relying on. Without the community Canonical has nothing they can base their OS on, their only product that they can sell. Now they stabbed the community in the back. Really smart move, kill those whose work you need for your product. Shuttleworth will learn the hard way that something that works in the proprietary OS market will not necessarily work in the FOSS market.

More betral bullshit
what a fucking carry on

posted by jrch2k8
1.) They have proven to be again and again but like bo$$ it seems you like PR more than dig technical facts, this is a technical forum not religious facebook page
whats proven
3.) You are the stupid (prove for point 1) here i thought "other DE" would cleanly imply KDE/GNOME/XFCE/LXDE/etc. but whatever most of those DE maintainers won't accept XMir fixes upstream or contribute them downstream starting with KDE because it make no technical sense and ubuntu flavors maintainer thought the same and stick to native X.org

No you are a dumb cunt thinking point one proof anything on my original complaint.

when you adquire the ability required to read C/C++ and understand it professionally you will see why there is no point in XMir and why will be rewritten[aka leach upstream XWayland] for 14.04 and ofc why everybody stays away from it like the pest, until then you can believe whatever you want or go preach your technically baseless opinions in facebook or canonical forums.

There goes your superiority complex again. You like doing that dont you
Looking at me and my 133t c/c++ skills .........what a fucking wanker you are
You wouldn't have a fucking clue what languages i do and don't know so don't go pretending you do.

what you and bo$$ do here is like go to science today and post the sun should be cooller at nights and get mad when an actual physicist call you retard and then you come back to defend your point because the religion you follow consider that a hard fact then the guy ask you to study physics to see the truth and you claim that is for geeks(so again, why in the fucking hell you are posting in science today? to start with)

Nice try but you are again acting like the dickhead i first complained about
pull your head in fuckstick

yeah ovbiously is a smart idea when you don't control the 99% of the code you use and that 99% of the code depends of the ppl your are pissing off. Extremely awesome bussiness kick ass especially since canonical is so productive that the guys in the company have to go to mark office to ask him for money to go and buy coffees.

This is your great uber technical input LMFAO

ovbiously that bunch of retardeds in Redhat are working with a dead model that don't kick asses like mark since they can't find where to put that billion dollar/year net income or how to improve that 9.41 billion dollars market cap
Guys we have to run to buy canonical stock ... ohh wait ....

like the child you are
"ner ner redhat is better "

perfect example for wikipedia of what it means to be an a religious fanboy and the amusing part is that he doesn't actually know how far behind is Mir

More fantastic technical inupt by the great jrch2k8
Shouldn't you be practising what you preach and putting this on facebook?

[jrch2k8]

Is there a HOWTO for "pulling out an Ubuntu" right now with an up to date distro (Fedora, Arch required) and run a Wayland + XWayland stack right now? Are there any downsides doing that?

no you can't in the sense first XWayland is on hold"ish" until some DRI3000 fixes[that will improve Xorg too] lands and most patches that allow XMir to pull that ugly hack were rejected from upstream XWayland long ago[they were ugly hacks after all] because XWayland is designed to be rootless.

now if you C-FU is good you could track their mailinglist and put together with X.Org 1.13 some sort of XMir frankeistein for wayland but i would recommend you instead of trying to pull this mess, just use Gnome-3.10 natively with wayland[i think arch should support it in AUR], it has some glitches but im sure getting in gnome IRC will be enough to swiftly test wayland performance

[synaptix]

What a travesty he changed his mind gaaaaawd

There is quite a difference between changing your mind and basically saying FUCK YOU LINUX COMMUNITY.

[jrch2k8]

More betral bullshit
what a fucking carry on

No you are a dumb cunt thinking point one proof anything on my original complaint.

There goes your superiority complex again. You like doing that dont you
Looking at me and my 133t c/c++ skills .........what a fucking wanker you are
You wouldn't have a fucking clue what languages i do and don't know so don't go pretending you do.


Nice try but you are again acting like the dickhead i first complained about
pull your head in fuckstick


This is your great uber technical input LMFAO


like the child you are
"ner ner redhat is better "

More fantastic technical inupt by the great jrch2k8
Shouldn't you be practising what you preach and putting this on facebook?

WoW server are in maintenance that you are emo raging here??

[mrugiero]

What a fucking carry on one minute you claim fragmentation the next a carbon copy.
what a fucking carry on. So in the end we end up Mir and wayland doing the same thing in a slightly different way............ what a travesty!!!
Abominable............ lmfao what a fucking carry on!!!

I guess you don't code, and I don't blame you nor think you are stupid for that. But you are talking about something you don't know.
To fragment you don't need things to be poles apart, it's enough to name functions differently. Why? Because when you code, you target an interface which is basically some data structures and functions. To use Wayland and Mir, you need to target two different interfaces, and doing things only slightly different only makes this more outrageous, because you have two interfaces to target for no significant difference in how they work.

O please they have done nothing wrong

A short list of things they did wrong include the whole idea of using XMir as the base for the desktop in 13.10 and 14.04. This gives objectively no significant features, while (necessarily) increasing overhead on operations and surface for bugs to appear. I won't name the others, because those might be arguable, but this one is wrong from any point of view, except PR, and the PR advantage is debatable since it might mean users will see a deteriorated experience with those releases. Believe, I AM testing it, and I see how much slower this is.

Even if true so what? Its a problem for ubuntu/canonical
It wont affect you since you wont ever go near it so why carry on about it day after day. Get a fucking life loser
Blah blah blah games on wayland are going to face the same fucking issues.Since you don't use ubuntu why such a concern anyway?

Fragmentation affects other people aside from the ones who create them. For any being, programming against two backends means more work than programming for one. With Wayland, it was expected X.org would be dropped for most desktop development, so in the end, in a few years, we would have to port only to Wayland. Now, we have at least two backends, Mir and Wayland, and if we want to remain compatible we can't kill X, because that's the only common interface that doesn't imply coding against toolkits.

liar

If you think it's so unbelievable to like a distro and disagree with some choices, then you are one of the stupid users that a lot of people think we all are. I use Xubuntu, I made a lot of my friends switch from Windows to Ubuntu (vanilla flavor), and the crappy XMir solution will probably give them problems, so I will not agree with that choice. All being said, I'm still testing it, because I know they don't care what I think about the idea and my friends will end up using it, so I better help to at least catch most bugs before they use it.

What a travesty he changed his mind gaaaaawd

Changed his mind, and there's nothing wrong with it. What is wrong is to change his mind nine months before even telling us why, or at least express the concerns that lead him to change his mind. Again, if it fragments the desktop, it doesn't affect *just* Ubuntu.

[dee.]

Oh, joy. Christmas came early! (and no, that's not what mrs. santa said)

What a fucking carry on one minute you claim fragmentation the next a carbon copy.
what a fucking carry on. So in the end we end up Mir and wayland doing the same thing in a slightly different way............ what a travesty!!!

Ah, I can see I am debating with a highly intelligent and distinguished gentleman with worldly tastes. Hey?

I do remind you, sir, that Mir would never have been possible without Wayland. Without all the groundwork done by the Wayland devs, all the plumbing and preparing of the graphics stack... Mir couldn't have been. The structure of the Mir server was copied (not in literal sense, but as in, they looked at Wayland to see "this is how to do it") and some parts were indeed copied straight on (XMir is a 1:1 copy of XWayland, with slight changes maybe).

Abominable............ lmfao what a fucking carry on!!!

I say, old chap, is that spittle coming from your mouth? Careful, you'll drop your monocle.

O please they have done nothing wrong

No? They have been lying at every turn, spreading malicious lies about their competition, acted with hostility towards the entire community... I would call that "doing wrong", but perhaps you have a differing opinion? Could it be, that your tastes are simply so refined that I just can't grasp them? Maybe there is some higher form of enjoyment to be found in being lied to and slandered, that only a gentleman of your caliber can appreciate. Maybe such customs are common in your household? How intriguing!

Even if true so what? Its a problem for ubuntu/canonical
It wont affect you since you wont ever go near it so why carry on about it day after day. Get a fucking life loser

Ah, sir, I must say - truly, your composure and skills in the art of debate are nothing short of marvelous. I stand in awe at your rapier wit. Awe, I tell you. Well done, sir. I couldn't have said it better. Pray tell, where do you come up with such exquisite material? If I may, sir, the whole "get a fucking life loser" was an excellent touch. Such refined taste... such elegance!

Sadly, I can only offer my humble counter in my own, feeble words... it is indeed my problem, because what Canonical does affects the rest of the ecosystem, the rest of the community. They have much influence, like it or not, and they should take some responsibility how they use it.

Blah blah blah games on wayland are going to face the same fucking issues.Since you don't use ubuntu why such a concern anyway?

I'm in tears. Seriously, tears. Such beauty! Such elegance! Such an ingenious grasp of the art of wordplay. I am speechless!

liar

Sir, I am offended. I consider myself a paragon of honesty.

What a travesty he changed his mind gaaaaawd

Quite.

That's it? It's over already? Aww.

[synaptix]

What you haters don't understand is that for most people Ubuntu == Linux. Ubuntu has become too big to fail. If it fails it takes everybody down with it.

But Ubuntu != Linux, Linux = Linux. Ubuntu = GNU/Linux. Also if Ubuntu fails, Linux Mint would defintely pick up a lot of the slack, since they have an edition based directly off Debian cutting out Ubuntu from the mix.

[LinuxGamer]

What you haters don't understand is that for most people Ubuntu == Linux. Ubuntu has become too big to fail. If it fails it takes everybody down with it. So you should actually learn to support Mir and all the devs focus on it especially since it moves so fast and leave Wayland for later. Linux on the desktop is where it is due to Ubuntu. Everybody should actually help them since most Linux users are Ubuntu users. If Ubuntu dies everybody moves back to Windows and Linux will go back to basement dwellers, their dogs and Richard Stallman the loser weirdo who said that Ubuntu is bad and the community should teach them a lesson. It is the opposite in fact, Richard Stallman and his loser friends need to shut up and go to their corner. They've had their time. All they got was a shitty 1% of the market. Now fuck those jokers and let's try something else!

Do you understand that by sabotaging Canonical you are actually sabotaging yourselves? Even you Gentoo users! Linux benefits from having many users. Do you want it to wither all away, all that was gained so hard and for so much toil? Your rebellion against Canonical will come back to bite your asses. In fact it will chew you whole. So the only option for now is to support Canonical, even if you don't agree with all their decisions. Their success will trickle down to lesser used distros. Canonical winning will actually help improve the whole Linux community. Canonical is basically like the American banks in 2008. You bail them out or else....

it's moving so fast you can't even see how awesome it is Oh wait it died..

off to the Canonical graveyard like the rest of Canonical's Project's

[LinuxGamer]

But Ubuntu != Linux, Linux = Linux. Ubuntu = GNU/Linux. Also if Ubuntu fails, Linux Mint would defintely pick up a lot of the slack, since they have an edition based directly off Debian cutting out Ubuntu from the mix.

Linux Mint has been picking up more and more far as i know