Steam Machines Prototypes: Intel CPU, NVIDIA GPU

[Luis]

Do you really think Valve doesn't have a direct connection to NVIDIA and that NVIDIA doesn't want Valve using their closed source drivers on it? You have to be realistic here, NVIDIA engineers are working with Valve on this and they want Valve to use their closed source drivers.

Sure NVIDIA wants their drivers in there, and Valve too. The problem is that the Linux kernel has a license that prohibits to distribute it without the source code. So it is illegal to distribute this Steam Machine with the binary NVIDIA drivers in it.

The only half-legal workaround is that users download and install the drivers by themselves (I say half-legal because it is agreed that while NVIDIA's binary-only Linux drivers are not clearly legal they are not clearly illegal either -distributed ALONE, without a Linux kernel-, they are, in Linus Torvald's own words, in a legal gray area, and since no one sued Nvidia until now for distributing them I guess no one will ever do).

Still, I don't get the point of using Linux for this machine. Is the point just to save the Windows licensing cost?

[Bathroom Humor]

Still, I don't get the point of using Linux for this machine. Is the point just to save the Windows licensing cost?

The question of drivers probably won't be a big deal. Maybe include a checkbox on install or include it in a end-user agreement clause that installs it upon pressing "I blindly accept".

But to answer your question, they do it not just because it's less expensive. The performance is objectively much better, especially if they get the drivers really optimized and reduce as much graphical overhead from the OS as possible. There are clear performance gains in such a scenario.
But also, they want the freedom of not needing to worry about MS competing with them unfairly with their own appstore, or getting all tied up in some shady agreements. Basically, they see how MS operates, Gaben fears that they are going in a bad direction for developers and users, and wants to give them as little leverage as possible going forward with their console.
And lastly, they really need the freedom that comes with Linux. The freedom to let anyone (including thier own developers, of course) hack the system and change it to suit them precisely, or diagnose/fix any issue without permission from a third party. It's one of thier selling points, an open platform for people who love to tinker. They could never get that from Windows, and it will really pay off for them if steam machines become popular.

[nadro]

This is just a prototype which will offer the best experiences in Linux games (mainly based on Source Engine which was ported to Linux in cooperation with Nvidia). Final platform may be totally different. W8 eg for Mantle API.

[Kano]

First of all the main problem with W8+ for Valve is the same as with Apple: they added a store. I am pretty sure since the store is inside OS X directly the main sales are done without Steam on that plattform. Steam has a large userbase but for the next years that might change, therefore creating a new environment without other integrated shops (i am sure you can forget Canonicals variant here) is an interestig choice. If somebody wants to installs his W7 licence it, Valve will not hold him back. As everything in that boxes seems to be pretty fast hardware they will sell it at a high price, i don't think they it will be cheaper than the production costs - unlike consoles where they have to sell 1-2 games at least (but those games are much more expensive).

[uid313]

CAD files

Really nice to see CAD files.
I like that!
I like the open source spirit, the free software spirit, the the DIY spirit.

[Pallidus]

I will probably get banned, again, for talking shit about valve but here goes:

You people are just as insanely stupid as valve, there won't be "selling machines at a loss" like someone said since VALVE WON'T BE MAKING THEM

OEM's will and they will make them for PROFIT... meaning even the cheapest model will be ~$700

So who is the targetted audience for these expensive machines??

The core gaming audience will be perfectly content with their new ps4's and xbones.... are pc gamers all supposed to ditch their rigs and windows in droves and jump to stemboxes?? Maybe the reason they are pc gamers in the first place is that THEY DON'T WANT TO PLAY IN THE SOFA WITH haptic CONTROLLERS

This is the beginning of the end for valve.... mark my words

[juanrga]

I understand those are prototypes, and I understand people will be free to build its own boxes, but I fail to understand Valve chosen hardware.

All triple-A game developers chose the FX-8350 as better future gaming CPU than i5-3570k due to how new consoles are changing game engines. Haswell desktop i5/i7 are not better than Ivy Bridge. In fact, the Haswell i5/i7 can show even performance regressions when compared with Ivy Bridge.

Add that SteamOS is linux and AMD performs better under linux than under Windows because linux is well-multithreaded. FX-8350 competes with the i7-3770k under linux.

3GB VRAM? Several experts are recommending 4 GB for future-proof, because next games will use memory massively due to new consoles. One of the first PS4 games is already using 3.5GB VRAM, for instance.

Titan? GTX-780? Nvidia is considered the poor company by linux community due to its drivers and attitude, and Valve choose Nvidia for linux box? Finally the new AMD R9 will be faster than Titan using DX/OpenGL but "ridicule" (sic) Titan when using the new MANTLE API.

Why not a FX-8350 instead an i5-4570? Why not a R9-290x instead Titan? Why not spend resources/time on porting MANTLE to SteamOS?

[johnc]

Sure NVIDIA wants their drivers in there, and Valve too. The problem is that the Linux kernel has a license that prohibits to distribute it without the source code. So it is illegal to distribute this Steam Machine with the binary NVIDIA drivers in it.

I don't believe that's true. Otherwise how would every Android OEM go about doing it?

[bridgman]

I don't believe that's true. Otherwise how would every Android OEM go about doing it?

Android driver stacks normally have an open source kernel driver.

[IanS]

Sure NVIDIA wants their drivers in there, and Valve too. The problem is that the Linux kernel has a license that prohibits to distribute it without the source code. So it is illegal to distribute this Steam Machine with the binary NVIDIA drivers in it.

The only half-legal workaround is that users download and install the drivers by themselves (I say half-legal because it is agreed that while NVIDIA's binary-only Linux drivers are not clearly legal they are not clearly illegal either -distributed ALONE, without a Linux kernel-, they are, in Linus Torvald's own words, in a legal gray area, and since no one sued Nvidia until now for distributing them I guess no one will ever do).

Still, I don't get the point of using Linux for this machine. Is the point just to save the Windows licensing cost?

Sigh, it would be nice if you would at least attempt to read through the GPL and understand the basics of how the kernel operates before you decide to regurgitate the same old nonsense about them. There is nothing in the GPL that prevents GPL'd programs from being distributed along side closed source programs. The GPL says that closed source programs can't link to GPL'd shared libraries, it says nothing at all about loading a closed source binary module at run-time into a GPL'd program. Binary blobs are basically self-contained plug-ins and neither they nor the kernel do any linking, dynamic or static, against each other and are therefore not within the scope of the GPL.

Sources:

http://linuxhelp.150m.com/politics/kmodsGPL.htm

http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Kernel/proprietary-kernel-modules.html

http://opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license.php

[Edit: Also, the GPL does not say you have to distribute the source when you ship binaries, only that you must make the source available in a manner that anyone can reasonably get a copy if they so wish, otherwise all the distros would be in hot water as nearly none of them include source on their images. I know this is probably a misunderstanding due to your poor use of English, but just in case it wasn't I wanted to clarify that point.]