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Nvidia deside to abadon opensource, I deside to abadon Nvidia.

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  • #11
    Originally posted by monraaf View Post
    In all fairness the second link you posted regards the r300g driver, looking at the commit logs and the copyright of the source files this driver is mostly an effort of Corbin Simpson and Marek Ol??k. A third party effort not much to do with AMD. I think something similar is going for NVidia cards with the nouveau driver.
    For the Gallum3D Driver the free docs are used and the DRM Kernel Module. Without it the 3D driver didn't work.

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    • #12
      My desktop and previous 2 laptops all used AMD/ATI. My current laptop uses Nvidia and frankly, it has been a lot less hassle to use their blob.

      It seems that the majority of people who post on these forums are enthusiasts, and the majority of enthusiasts are gamers. I just wanted to point out that there's a large population of users who don't use OpenGL (don't even know or care what it is), all they need is for their computer to let them run office apps, surf the web, and watch videos.

      On this score, AMD still has a lot of catching up to do on the Linux front. This absence of support is going to keep more users on either Nvidia or Windows, neither of which is a good thing as far as open source advancement goes. fglrx/XvBA is also a joke, it hardly supports any video cards, so even AMD/closed source is not viable on Linux.

      For the vast majority of computer users, ATI+Linux has zero value today. That bums me out quite a lot, I would prefer to be using all AMD/ATI. But on the hardware side (laptops) the products aren't there, and on the software side, the support isn't there.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by d2kx View Post
        It shouldn't be too long until the r600g (Gallium3D) development starts though, fun times
        It has already been started in Jerome Glisse's private branch.

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        • #14
          well i have to say, amd fusion is a killer solution. from the killer bang for the buck Athlon II/Phenom II CPU, to the mobos with AMD chiset and the cheap really fast GPU's. the only thing AMD is missing to make fusion a reality in the linux side is the completion of the basic GL 2.1 support in the OSS driver (very close btw in mesa 7.9). so dont desperate

          as a note Xorg 1.8 is rocking too

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          • #15
            Originally posted by highlandsun View Post
            My desktop and previous 2 laptops all used AMD/ATI. My current laptop uses Nvidia and frankly, it has been a lot less hassle to use their blob.

            It seems that the majority of people who post on these forums are enthusiasts, and the majority of enthusiasts are gamers. I just wanted to point out that there's a large population of users who don't use OpenGL (don't even know or care what it is), all they need is for their computer to let them run office apps, surf the web, and watch videos.

            On this score, AMD still has a lot of catching up to do on the Linux front. This absence of support is going to keep more users on either Nvidia or Windows, neither of which is a good thing as far as open source advancement goes. fglrx/XvBA is also a joke, it hardly supports any video cards, so even AMD/closed source is not viable on Linux.

            For the vast majority of computer users, ATI+Linux has zero value today. That bums me out quite a lot, I would prefer to be using all AMD/ATI. But on the hardware side (laptops) the products aren't there, and on the software side, the support isn't there.
            Yes, if you would carefully scroll through the pictures, you would notice I was Nvidia user, exactly because the only trouble is installing the blob.

            But then, nvidia closes lastest opensource, all nvidia does is using windows driver on linux and remapping calls to it(including vdpau). This has no way any future on linux, it is more like patching linux OS to support their windows driver.

            What do you do on linux? There is barely any native gaming, 3D wine does not count too(because it is windows on linux). And nvidia kind of writing drivers will never allow linux to outperform windows, just because nvidia is a windows driver. Correct kernel integragtion, 2D, powermanagement, basic opengl 3D are there, in opensource. By whom? I have a lot of friends that use AMD on graphics linux and it is usable.
            I personally have installed Xubuntu on Asus A6rp netbook with AMD xpress 200M chipset 2 years ago and 3D acceleration worked and was sufficient for compiz. It worked with opensource drivers. It works.

            I never like to speak for majority, because individual human is always clever, but once there is a bunch - they react stupid. Majority comes to never goes to PC shops either, they buy Dell(or similar), they dont care about OS, dont care about hardware, they even dont care about programs. They care they can surf internet, play games and listen music. Only once they start paying for antivirus, become hacked, their system dies and they pay to repair it and realise they have to pay bug amount of money to renew software licenses they start thinking and asking and this way they come to linux. Such people will never change anything - they are inertia, critical mass. It was microsofts goal to rich critical mass. Watch here:
            0:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_u1jPLOIA

            I dont want WINE to claim it is linux interface for programmers, I dont want developers use WINE and say their program is for linux. This is plain WRONG, there is SDL!

            I dont want to buy nvidia cards, that do not care about linux and handle it as a second hand OS. Even if nvidia linux-crew does amazing job at remapping, they do not represent the company.

            I acknowledge gnu/linux as much more advanced method and technology for software development and do not want windows for the future. This is why I stop supporting them via any traces.

            Thats why I sold nvidia card and bought AMD card with similar perfomance. This wasnt part of upgrade, it was part of support. Im individual, I think and I support. I dont eat at McDonalds btw(maybe except McFlurry ), so Im happy to not belong to the brainless "mass".

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              get the point wine is one of the best software pices in the opensource world..

              thats because if microsoft makes a game like "Helo" they do it windows only to support there 'windows'/xbox360 platform

              but now a smart linux guy installs wine and playes Helo without buying windows..

              its not abaut the game its abaut the freedome of use whatever you want! and no company like microsoft can stop you!

              microsoft do not wana build a linux version of M$ office because they hate linux`? no problem install wine and use M$office if you wana use it..

              if you find an old win98 game to play and microsoft do not support win98 anymore no problem get linux+wine and play the game..

              wine is just the last final bulled into the body of Microsoft!
              Try to understand me, I hold you for wrong in many points.

              Wine is great way to launch windows applications that have no ports or no equivalents on linux.
              It is also great way to show that linux is capable and faster that windows.
              But this is where it ends.
              Microsoft releases a game(actually not microsoft, but Bungie - the developer) only for microsoft(nothing new) with only-microsoft renderer(directx).

              1) Now you buy this game(you support microsoft and tell bungie it is sufficient to release only microsoft code).
              1a) You do not send email to the company(bungie) asking to release linux version.
              1b) Releasing or supporting linux stack is unnecessary, there is wine. Wine becomes official "interface" to linux. Wine implements microsoft technology.
              2) You also buy windows, but you dont install it. You need to have one copy of windows to accept license for fonts, .NET and many more things. You buy and dont use, or you buy and use - where is difference?
              3) You pay microsoft for windows to use wine, you pay microsoft for directx, you pay bungie for windows game and dont tell bungie you need linux version. In best case bungie asks you to use wine next time. Wine is NOT MAJOR part of linux, but thanks to you no games will work in linux without WINE.
              4) You cannot use lastest AdobeCS4 and Microsoft Office only because of this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software) "Microsoft and Wine"
              and because of DRM. Proprietary software installs numerous copyprotection systems that root deeply into the system and require them to run. Linux is the opposite of DRM. It is developed differently. Thats why using windows software on linux is very bad for linux.

              You get and support windows games, windows(for license), put windows on linux, put wine on linux, play with bugs. You support closed source for linux.

              I sell nvidia card so AMD implements linux stack. Only because of opensource I switch cards. I support open source for linux. I do not want wine or anything windows run on linux.

              Everyone is free to choose.

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              • #17
                Yeah, ok, Im very wrong.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                  Thats 350? invested in your hardware as an appreciation of what you do to opensource community! Thanks AMD!
                  This seems like a waste to me. Your old hardware was fine and you have no idea what would be available when you actually needed new hardware. By that time, AMD could have abandoned open source with Nvidia embracing it.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                    Yeah, ok, Im very wrong.
                    You have a point in what you claimed before. What is the current vision for platform-independent coding, btw? SDL? (which in term can tap OpenGL, OpenAL(?), network stuff etc)
                    We do need a simple framework we can market to gaming companies that they can target against, after all.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
                      This seems like a waste to me. Your old hardware was fine and you have no idea what would be available when you actually needed new hardware. By that time, AMD could have abandoned open source with Nvidia embracing it.
                      Worlds lie between "is" and "would". I need 4 core or similar cpu. Im using linux, so thanks to opensource my software runs 100% optimized for the hardware(video convertion).

                      Socket 775 is out of production, but I could go with quadcored Q8300/6600. But then, I would need to sell mb, ram and cpu at the times, where it is outdated already. Because in next 4 years no cpu will be produced for s775. No socket 775 mb will be produced and DDR2 production as already stopped to my information. So doing it now, when I can still sell it, is good idea.

                      135x is very pricey and is aging too(intel desided to replace it, google, dont remember the link).
                      115x is one way to go, with i3-530 in my budget. But its 2x2HTcores, not 4 real ones, the one that comes close(i5) costs 70? extra. Intel also has opensource stack, but perfomance is only enough for video and 2D.

                      Now look at AMD/ATI. With AM3 processors I can either choose AM2+ board and keep DDR2, or AM3 board and upgrade RAM as well. I choose to upgrade for the reasons above.

                      The processors,.. I already had one Athlon II X2 240 at my parents build(I picked E5300 instead) and it run cooler,.. I had to buy Scythe Big Shuriken extra, because E5300 went over 55@acceptable noise levels with stock cooling. SBS put it back to 40.

                      I could have chosen Phenom II x4, but its too, a bit too much for my cfg. Besides its power consumption is well at level of i7. I didnt want to play with cores, unlocking PhII x2 etc, so the best thing for me was AII X4 630(620 was 5? cheaper so what the heck). 4 cores, less cache which means less heat and power consumption. But AMD seems to have done one thing wrong - the default Vcore is 1.4, which is WAY too much. I undervolted the rig to 1.15, tested under 20 hours prime95 and it runs solid. Power consumption dropped from 200 to 160 (with HD4770 in idle ) so, my "old" E5300 had 120. Its pretty decent for twice the perfomance.

                      The motherboard which I had, Asrock P43ME(I need an uATX board to fit the case) is the only one which had ICH10(low power consumption) and was under 80?. For similar price I have bought AM3 all-solid-cap board from gigabyte, with much more extras(but unimportant).

                      Then I thought AMD cpu, AMD board. AMD does good things for opensource, I watch phoronix repeatedly reporting gallium improve to very usable state with 3D accel. Then blam Nvidia drops opensource. I also have read nvidia uses windows driver on linux, hence nvidia raw linux perfomance always falls behind windows. Throw in AMD card as well. Fsck Nvidia.

                      They may "would", but I must "have". One great blob went from kernel, unrestricted kernel version selection, easy gcc and glibc selection, peace of mind supporting foss-aware company. Hope that answers your question.

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