My horrible experience with ATI

[Melcar]

Nope, not at all. They do find problems and we usually get the problems fixed before release.

The reality here is that we will probably follow the same path as all the other Linux driver vendors -- gradually accumulate functionality and compatibility over time (we've come a long way in the last year) then lock in that behaviour and keep it good going forward. Our testing focus is still relatively heavily biased towards CAD workstation users although we are increasing consumer coverage over time.

Oh I know what goes on in the mailing list all the time. It's just that I have no doubt that the natural progression of this "discussion" right here will lead to the blame being placed on the beta program. The driver team is already getting a bad rap for it, so people need someone else to blame.
The problem seems to be in the rather "eccentric" nature of Linux distros. No two are the same, with everyone putting their own spin on the finished product. It's not Windows, were you only have Windows, so it's no surprise that the driver works for many and does not for many others. The only solutions I think would be to do it like nvidia with their binary (don't depend on X) or do testing on every conceivable distro out there.

[Odur]

Actually there is a fairly large beta test group which does try out the drivers before you see them.

Tell those beta testers to try to start another x-session while the first is still running (eg. switch user). A lot of people get a complete freeze when they do. That bug isn't even in the "Known issues" section in the drivers release note!

Or you can make me a beta tester and I'll report that bug...

[Xtigyro]

Make me, too !!! Make me, too !!!! SooooOOoooo many bugs to report !

[NeoBrain]

Tell those beta testers to try to start another x-session while the first is still running (eg. switch user). A lot of people get a complete freeze when they do. That bug isn't even in the "Known issues" section in the drivers release note!

Or you can make me a beta tester and I'll report that bug...

+1

It DID actually work with ~8.43 or so, but the newer ones fail at it, quite disturbing IMO... Well, I always wondered why there was no "minimizing support" under Linux/Xorg...

[Markore]

I do not agree that "winth windows there is just windows" and Linux distributions differs a lot.

There is "stable" Linux distro releases (like my 64bit Xubuntu 8.04 LTS release) that are supported by ATI driver.. BUt...

During my usage of integrated graphics in 690G chipset (X1250) I was using all fglrx drivers that were released.
I was waiting for things to settle with drivers, bugs to be fixed etc..
Every release after another bring more bugs and more problems while old bugs and problems were solved very slowly.
There were multiple releases that broke my LTS system from even booting, etc..
So my conclusion is that AMD releases Graphics hardware and in years
to come turns its Linux production users into beta testers.
I want to have finished driver by the time hardware is released!
Not 2 years after release!

So there are fat chances that I will buy any more powerful AMD graphics now.
They didnot pass my X1250 test for years, I had multiple problems with every new release of fglrx and I will certenly NOT going to wait
for any new 4890 or 4870X2 or something to be supported in Linux
like they should in the first day the GPU`s are released.

My GPU money is on Nvidia ande saying that, I will consider my next machine to be with Intel CPU, also,
since My Biostar (690GAM2) motherboard manufacturer didn`t release newer bios to support Phenom, too,
I conclude that AMD platform lacks propper support overall to be used by me anymore.

[bridgman]

I think you may be misrepresenting our position here, and drawing the wrong conclusions as a result. Until late 2007 our policy was that we provided and supported Linux drivers for our FireGL boards, and that we provided limited Linux support for consumer products on an "as-is" basis.

In late 2007 we announced four things - resumption of support for open source graphics driver development, a new 3D drivers stack with significantly improved OpenGL performance, a commitment to gradually improve the level of support for consumer users, and internal changes which would allow us to release Linux support for new GPUs on the same general schedule as other OSes. The fglrx-related work for this had started back in 2005.

The key point is that the driver improvements were across all supported GPUs, not "just the old ones and we'll have to do it all again for the new ones". If anything our bias was towards improving support on newer chips, since the open source drivers were also improving their ability to support older chips.

So... if you're not happy with the policy at the time or today, that's fair. If you're looking at your experience with 690 and extrapolating the need to "start from the beginning" again with driver support on new GPUs that might deserve a re-think.

[lordmozilla]

Why arent fglrx beta's availbale for everyone with stable releases released when they are ready/have some improvement.

I mean who cares that linux and windows drivers get released at the same time? Seems like a really bad and cheap marketing trick.

On a different note I agree fglrx has made great progress. And for that ATI should be thanked, I think the better they get, the higher the expectations become...

Now can we get some newer kernels supported?

[bridgman]

We release the drivers at the same time and from the same release because they share a lot of code, and that way we can leverage test coverage across all OSes.

[hdas]

I see. That explains it all . Perhaps your beta testers test it on Windows and not in Linux (btw, do they even download and install it?), and when they are okay, we get the driver for *all OS'es* (which is Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, MacOS, Android, RHEL-4.6 ...). Looks like your NDA doesn't allow linux beta testers to either download, or install the drivers, or perhaps to report bugs . Mmm, *leverage_test_coverage_across_all_OSes* - sounds good to me .

Oh, and btw. Recently I was using my sister's iMac (late 2006) which has a ATI Mobility Radeon X1600. Upgraded to OSX 10.5.6. Antialiasing on terminal looks horrible. And on VMWare fusion, one cannot enable 3D due to 'a known bug in ATI drivers'.

[Melcar]

There is a working beta test group for fglrx. It's closed, and I'm sure AMD has reasons for that (smaller, easily controlled test group).