Whoops, X.Org Server 1.9 Gets Another RC Today

[mugginz]

Excuse me while I am trying to not shout out in caps what I feel like when I am talking to you:

So this is were you tell me I should be using ATI right?

1. nVidia has working graphics? Cool, now how about that K-M-fscking-S for starters?

ATI has working graphics? Cool, now how about that tear free video for starters?

2. Point me to a graphics card that is still in use that is not fully accelerating X.org due to driver difficiency.

Evergreen cards running on an nForce chipset for starters.

If you're suggesting that on the whole fglrx is better than nVidia blob then we'll have to disagree.

3. Point me to a driver that has slower 2D performance than nVidia's blob.

Well now that fglrx 10.6 has addressed this then that's fine and dandy unless you need something that it wont do.

So X.org should not care about that blob because it simply works with all cards. Period.

Rubbish.

What is needed than? Ow I get it: if you want to runs games than nVidia's blob is required and if you can't run X than you're screwed. So what's the problem? X? No it is Mesa. If nVidia would just only release a blob that can slide in place with the Noveau driver and add some (note: not IP/patent/copyright-ridden) FLOSS voltage controll and standby stuff to Noveau than problem solved!

What are we even talking about here?

Stop being ridiculous.

[kraftman]

Yeh, get rid of nVidia. That'll show 'em.

Way to go, get rid of the Linux graphics solution with the best all-round functionality and performance. We don't need their kind round 'ere. Who needs working graphics anyway?

The problem is why the hell X devs care about some damn blob? They don't care about compatibility with fglrx, but they care about freaking nvidia. It's nvidia which should care about compatibility and the Linux kernel devs understand this.

[mugginz]

The problem is why the hell X devs care about some damn blob? They don't care about compatibility with fglrx, but they care about freaking nvidia. It's nvidia which should care about compatibility and the Linux kernel devs understand this.

Well you do have a point if the xorg devs have no interest in the health of fglrx but they do with nVidia because we need both companies as first class citizens.

That's not to mention Intel, VIA, et. al.

We need the most hardware support we can get.

What indicates to you that the xorg guy's aren't into fglrx so much?

[kraftman]

Well you do have a point if the xorg devs have no interest in the health of fglrx but they do with nVidia because we need both companies as first class citizens.

That's not to mention Intel, VIA, et. al.

We need the most hardware support we can get.

This is true. However, I do believe nvidia would follow our rules if it wouldn't be treated like the first class citizen.

What indicates to you that the xorg guy's aren't into fglrx so much?

It seems they don't care if they break compatibility with the fglrx driver, because it happens all the time afaik, but they care when they brake compatibility with the nvidia blob in the rc X.org version by removing obsolete code which is used only by nvidia driver. If nvidia devs are so lazy I wouldn't care. Fglrx team has always to care about compatibility and nvidia probably has not.

[mugginz]

Given that it seems the xorg guys want to depreciate some code it'd be nice if nVidia put it into their plans going forward to remove their dependency on that code. When reading the xorg-devel list it doesn't seem like an urgent requirement to remove the code by any means though.

One thing I don't support is any "hang 'em high" mentality that's for sure. I don't get why some people are so quick to reach for nVidia's throat.

[curaga]

2. Point me to a graphics card that is still in use that is not fully accelerating X.org due to driver difficiency.

Umm..

http://www.x.org/wiki/ExaStatus

Work in progress:

tdfx

s3virge (Copy only currently)

r128 Joseph Garvin SoC

No work started, but capable of Render acceleration:
glide

glint (supported in KAA), Coming soon (ShawnStarr)
i740
imstt
newport
impact
rendition
trident (supported in KAA)
voodoo

No work started, some chips might be capable of Render acceleration:
apm (via the voodoo rush)
cirrus (laguna?)
neomagic (256XL+ was the only one with a 3D engine) (supported in KAA)
cyrix/nsc (new GX2s have an alpha combiner)
sun{ffb,leo}

[bulletxt]

This is true. However, I do believe nvidia would follow our rules if it wouldn't be treated like the first class citizen.

It seems they don't care if they break compatibility with the fglrx driver, because it happens all the time afaik, but they care when they brake compatibility with the nvidia blob in the rc X.org version by removing obsolete code which is used only by nvidia driver. If nvidia devs are so lazy I wouldn't care. Fglrx team has always to care about compatibility and nvidia probably has not.

Maybe because the NVIDIA driver is the real only working-feature-rich GPU driver for Linux. Tell me about another driver that works good, is stable, is feature rich, is performant, like NVIDIA.

Maybe FGRLX? -> must be a joke
Maybe Ati oss driver? -> that's another joke.

[rohcQaH]

Wait.. since when is nvidia supposed be stable, feature rich and performant?

I've had (and still have) enough driver related crashes, there are plenty of features nvidia will never have due to being closed source, 2d performance is still crappy in certain use cases and I never figured out why it'll sometimes take several seconds to maximize an xv window.


Granted, nvidia is one of the better drivers around, and if it fits your needs, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's not flawless, it's not the only driver that's usable, it's not even the best driver in all situation.

[bulletxt]

Wait.. since when is nvidia supposed be stable, feature rich and performant?

I've had (and still have) enough driver related crashes, there are plenty of features nvidia will never have due to being closed source, 2d performance is still crappy in certain use cases and I never figured out why it'll sometimes take several seconds to maximize an xv window.


Granted, nvidia is one of the better drivers around, and if it fits your needs, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's not flawless, it's not the only driver that's usable, it's not even the best driver in all situation.

I'm not aware of a software that is "best" in all situation. However in a general case, NVIDIA blob is the best GPU driver for Linux. Xorg drivers can't kill something that works for most cases, do you guys realize this?

I'm the first one to hate blob drivers, and that's why I only have AMD gpu cards combined to open source drivers but still, I understand why Xorg can't just kill compatibility with NVIDIA blob.

They care about their users and are realistic. I can't say the same for a lot of you out there.

Blind extremism is the thing I hate most in the GNU/Linux world, even more than a blob driver.

[Ragas]

The rational thing to do is:

write to nvidia-devs that mioverlay will be depreciated next release and tell them to remove dependencies till then.

That gives Nvidia time to react

Gives the X developers their freedom

and won't bother any Users.