Mir 0.0.5 Released; Kubuntu Will Stick To X/Wayland

[dee.]

Best quote in this mir vs wayland issue! laughed my ass off ;p

(btw, that quote shows really good what this is all about. its not about technical issue solving but politics and emotions (and religion))

Funny how it's the Ubuntard fanboys/girls who keep on ignoring every technical aspect of the issue. Every sane person here keeps repeating the technical facts and the countless technical reasons why mir and desktops on xmir are a bad idea, and the ubuntards keep plugging their ears, ranting on about "this is a political issue! political, do you hear me! you're being religious! and emotional!"

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to give me a technical reason why we need Mir.

[intellivision]

Funny how it's the Ubuntard fanboys/girls who keep on ignoring every technical aspect of the issue. Every sane person here keeps repeating the technical facts and the countless technical reasons why mir and desktops on xmir are a bad idea, and the ubuntards keep plugging their ears, ranting on about "this is a political issue! political, do you hear me! you're being religious! and emotional!"

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to give me a technical reason why we need Mir.

I'd doubt that even if there were a reason, you would be at all inclined to listen to it.
That's because you're a fanboy through and through, you don't care about projects that you don't like.
And considering the lack of spelling, grammar and capitalisation, I'd add angsty teenager to the mix too.

[Delgarde]

Best quote in this mir vs wayland issue! laughed my ass off ;p

(btw, that quote shows really good what this is all about. its not about technical issue solving but politics and emotions (and religion))

Except that it misses the point someone else made. You *can* run the entire desktop shell under XMir or XWayland, but those layers aren't intended for that case. For both Wayland and Mir, the design intention is that the desktop be ported to run natively, and the X layers be kept around for backward compatibility with *applications* that haven't been ported yet.

And that's where all the Kubuntu fuss comes from - KDE upstream (and more specifically, Kwin) are happy to do the work to port to run natively under Wayland, but they're not interested in spending effort to support Mir while it remains a single-distro system with no stable API to code to. And eventually, they'll drop support for running Kwin on X, which means the XMir solution stops working.

[mrugiero]

I'd doubt that even if there were a reason, you would be at all inclined to listen to it.
That's because you're a fanboy through and through, you don't care about projects that you don't like.
And considering the lack of spelling, grammar and capitalisation, I'd add angsty teenager to the mix too.

Maybe he is not, but I grant you I am. I'm actually willing to test it in some of my boxes. And I was mostly respectful (I recognize I wasn't at times) and kept asking for technical facts. The only one who gave them is pro-Wayland. What are pro-Mir waiting for, I don't know.
Contrary to seemingly everyone but that guy, I do care about projects, and I like them or dislike them mostly in a base of them solving real needs or not, and in technical facts, as long as they are free software (and I do like some proprietary, but with those I do have a philosophical and somewhat practical issue). Right now I dislike Mir, and fanboys are helping me dislike it even more, but I'm open to change my mind at any time if reasons are given.

[cynical]

Every sane person here keeps repeating the technical facts and the countless technical reasons why mir and desktops on xmir are a bad idea, and the ubuntards keep plugging their ears, ranting on about "this is a political issue! political, do you hear me! you're being religious! and emotional!"

I haven't seen any technical reasons why Mir is a bad idea at all. The only reason that I see people repeating is that it fragments the linux desktop.

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to give me a technical reason why we need Mir.

There is no technical reason that Mir is needed, just like there is no technical reason for gtk or gnome or even Linux itself. The reasons they chose not to use Wayland are here.

[cynical]

And that's where all the Kubuntu fuss comes from - KDE upstream (and more specifically, Kwin) are happy to do the work to port to run natively under Wayland, but they're not interested in spending effort to support Mir while it remains a single-distro system with no stable API to code to.

You are forgetting that Ubuntu developers have already offered to do the work themselves. The Kwin developer is concerned that they won't maintain it for some reason. This seems counterintuitive to me, since obviously Canonical would want more distros (specifically the rest of the *buntu family) to use Mir but afaik that is where the discussion has ended.

[przemoli]

Funny how it's the Ubuntard fanboys/girls who keep on ignoring every technical aspect of the issue. Every sane person here keeps repeating the technical facts and the countless technical reasons why mir and desktops on xmir are a bad idea, and the ubuntards keep plugging their ears, ranting on about "this is a political issue! political, do you hear me! you're being religious! and emotional!"

I'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to give me a technical reason why we need Mir.

Be cool and collected, and enumerate Wayland advantages over X.org, and then provide TECHNICAL reasons why such advantages WONT apply to Mir.

[e8hffff]

It's a real shame Kubuntu team are so political. I use Kubuntu and I'm really cross that they wont support the future with a display manager that will allow the deployment of devices wide of field.

I actually had my account banned from Kubuntu site and I'm not sure why other than I support Mir.

[przemoli]

It's a real shame Kubuntu team are so political. I use Kubuntu and I'm really cross that they wont support the future with a display manager that will allow the deployment of devices wide of field.

I actually had my account banned from Kubuntu site and I'm not sure why other than I support Mir.

Its not political.

Or rather there are good reasons for what Kubuntu will try to use. There where just not meantioned here.


KDE folks will work on X.org.

KDE folks wont work on Mir.

So if Kubuntu finds bugs in XMir, they are the one who would need to fix them.
If they work with X.org, KDE folks will still fix all the bugs. Only Kubuntu would need to care about packaging X.org, thing that could be quite easy if they already have people with know-how.

Ofc. If Wayland isn't ready in 2-3 Ubu releases, than yes, costs of keeping X.org around would outweight that one benefit.


And yes. Kubuntu folks seam to take political stance toward Canonical arguments. (Basically, "we do not trust you because we want Wayland"... )

[GreatEmerald]

Maybe he is not, but I grant you I am. I'm actually willing to test it in some of my boxes. And I was mostly respectful (I recognize I wasn't at times) and kept asking for technical facts. The only one who gave them is pro-Wayland. What are pro-Mir waiting for, I don't know.
Contrary to seemingly everyone but that guy, I do care about projects, and I like them or dislike them mostly in a base of them solving real needs or not, and in technical facts, as long as they are free software (and I do like some proprietary, but with those I do have a philosophical and somewhat practical issue). Right now I dislike Mir, and fanboys are helping me dislike it even more, but I'm open to change my mind at any time if reasons are given.

I completely approve of this post.

I haven't seen any technical reasons why Mir is a bad idea at all. The only reason that I see people repeating is that it fragments the linux desktop.

It's Unity-specific, therefore will have problems working with other DEs; it's incompatible with Wayland, so Wayland programs won't run on it and Mir programs won't run on Wayland; so far it doesn't have a stable API; it doesn't require the buffer age extension, and thus is not likely to keep every frame perfect.

There is no technical reason that Mir is needed, just like there is no technical reason for gtk or gnome or even Linux itself. The reasons they chose not to use Wayland are here.

All of those reasons were refuted by Wayland developers, because all those features could be easily added by using extensions.

Be cool and collected, and enumerate Wayland advantages over X.org, and then provide TECHNICAL reasons why such advantages WONT apply to Mir.

That's not the issue at hand. We all know that Wayland has advantages over X, and Mir also has them, but the question is how Mir is superior over Wayland that Canonical would have chosen to develop Mir instead of using Wayland. And so far I am yet to see any arguments, just a lot of hypocritical accusations of being emotional and political.