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Thread: Debian To Maintain 6.0 Squeeze As An LTS Release

  1. #1
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    Default Debian To Maintain 6.0 Squeeze As An LTS Release

    Phoronix: Debian To Maintain 6.0 Squeeze As An LTS Release

    Regular security support for Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" was set to end after next month, but now the Debian developers have decided to provide security support for this 2011 Debian Linux release until February 2016 -- marking five years since the original Debian 6.0 release...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY2NzA

  2. #2
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    Default LTS pointless most of time

    In my opinion a long term linux release is only suitable for servers (and in some cases it isn't), for end users is pointless, you have to deal with outdated software. An example is video drivers, they are still evolving and theres no easy way to install new versions without compiling the whole xserver and linux kernel (something that not everybody is willing to do). Another example would be PHP, that in this case it is version 5.3 on squeeze while 5.4 - 5.5 have lots of optimizations (opcache) that would benefit a server performance. Also newer kernels have introduced power usage improvements making a server be more energy efficient.

    Windows XP has survived a lot because it is easy to download the installer of latest software versions and have it working on your system in a few steps, while on a linux distro you mostly depend on the main software repositories (outdated) or third party repositories which are a pain to deal when upgrading the whole system.

    This LTS releases should adopt a semi rolling release model where new software versions is stability/compatibility tested and rolled out to main repositories when testing is done. Missing the advantages and improvements of newer software versions is a drawback in my opinion. I think LTS is a waste of human resources.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    In my opinion a long term linux release is only suitable for servers (and in some cases it isn't), for end users is pointless, you have to deal with outdated software. An example is video drivers, they are still evolving and theres no easy way to install new versions without compiling the whole xserver and linux kernel (something that not everybody is willing to do). Another example would be PHP, that in this case it is version 5.3 on squeeze while 5.4 - 5.5 have lots of optimizations (opcache) that would benefit a server performance. Also newer kernels have introduced power usage improvements making a server be more energy efficient.

    Windows XP has survived a lot because it is easy to download the installer of latest software versions and have it working on your system in a few steps, while on a linux distro you mostly depend on the main software repositories (outdated) or third party repositories which are a pain to deal when upgrading the whole system.

    This LTS releases should adopt a semi rolling release model where new software versions is stability/compatibility tested and rolled out to main repositories when testing is done. Missing the advantages and improvements of newer software versions is a drawback in my opinion. I think LTS is a waste of human resources.
    As I understand it, the catalystic event that launched the discussion which eventually resulted in this LTS initiative was when DreamHost announced that they were leaving Debian for Ubuntu LTS because Debian's support lifecycles were too short for them and their tens of thousands of servers. If my understanding is correct, that would appear to confirm your assertion that this is mostly for servers. However, I am not completely sure if I follow your logic that leads you to claiming that such a release is a waste of human resources. Can you expand?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    As I understand it, the catalystic event that launched the discussion which eventually resulted in this LTS initiative was when DreamHost announced that they were leaving Debian for Ubuntu LTS because Debian's support lifecycles were too short for them and their tens of thousands of servers. If my understanding is correct, that would appear to confirm your assertion that this is mostly for servers. However, I am not completely sure if I follow your logic that leads you to claiming that such a release is a waste of human resources. Can you expand?
    Bah, fucking 5 min edit limit. So stupid. Wanted to add the following:

    The reason why I am questioning your logic is because I feel like these kind of companies are more interested in something that works now to continue to work the same + with security protection against newly discovered vulnerabilities and threats than they are in being able to benefit from new optimizations and performance enhancements. When DreamHost announced they were switching, they described how the last Debian migration took them nearly a year to complete across all of their servers, and that this is not economically sustainable for them with two-year distro lifecycles. An organization like that will prioritize multi-year long-term stability, and will not be interested in enhancements that can compromise such stability.

  5. #5
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    It is not wasting of human (Debian) resourses , because it is not handled only by the Debian security team .

    squeeze-lts is not handled by the Debian security team,
    but by a separate group of volunteers and companies interested in
    making it a success
    (with some overlap in people involved). So, if
    you're a company using Debian and seeing a benefit in security
    support for five years, get in touch with team@security.debian.org
    and we'll see how you can help (if you e.g. don't have the manpower /
    know how but are willing to contribute, we can point you to a list
    of Debian consultants)
    * It needs to be pointed out that for this effort to be sustainable
    actual contributions by interested parties are required. squeeze-lts
    is not something that will magically fall from the sky. If you're
    dependent/interested in extended security support you should make an
    effort to contribute, either by contributing on your own or by
    paying a Debian developer/consultant to contribute for you.
    The security team itself is driving the effort, NOT doing it. Some team
    members will contribute to it individually, however.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    However, I am not completely sure if I follow your logic that leads you to claiming that such a release is a waste of human resources. Can you expand?
    Instead of focusing on packaging newer-software, missing-software, fixing bugs, as improving the whole system experience, package developers have to back-port security patches to support companies running old distro versions with old software, companies which may not even donate to the project to support it. Some of this packagers donate their free time, so instead of shaping the future of the OS they are shaping the past, which I see as a waste of time.

    Maybe a semi rolling release model would end all that lost time supporting older releases as doing new distro releases. Also end users would not have to spend so much time doing full system upgrades as salivating for new features on newer software version which they only can obtain by compiling or doing a full system upgrade.

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    The large number of xp uses show that this is also something decided for the desktop

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    Quote Originally Posted by dungeon View Post
    It is not wasting of human (Debian) resourses , because it is not handled only by the Debian security team .
    ahh thats some interesting information

  9. #9
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    Yep and people better to be called that 3+2 support instead of 5, because normal supporting period is on 3 years and will ended 31st May and those +2 can be called extended support for servers .

    Of course that can be good for workstations too, but of course it is not for desktop . But we will never know for what it can be, because people uses Windows XP even today for their desktops, does not metter it was entered extending phase in year 2009. .

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dungeon View Post
    But we will never know for what it can be, because people uses Windows XP even today for their desktops, does not metter it was entered extending phase in year 2009. .
    I think the fact people still uses XP is because upgrading software is easier, since you download a new installer and you will instantly have access to the latest version of your preferred applications, while on a linux distro you have to compile or depend on packagers, which makes it less attractive in some scenarios.

    Also still today most windows xp video drivers are more mature that linux ones and you dont have this problem that each time a new kernel/xserver is released drivers are broken.

    So in other words people can still run windows XP most of the time with latest versions of favorite open source applications with little effort, with optimized drivers (unless they buy new hardware).

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