Originally posted by Pseus
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Oracle Finally Releases Java 8
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Originally posted by RushPL View PostYou assume it is only Microsoft vs Oracle. I argue that Mono is outside of direct influence of MS. Granted, they try to copy all the stuff MS does but they also do innovative things like Ahead-Of-Time compilation and arguably they became more portable than JVM ever was. It is a piece of cake to compile Mono on any random ARM boards and AOT allows you to compile it to Objective-C and heck, through LLVM you could probably run Mono on any JavaScript engine.
If you do not agree with my previous point then if it was Sun instead of Oracle perhaps I could agree with you on the lesser evil part but in my opinion Oracle is as evil as Microsoft is (some would argue that all corporations are evil but I would answer that some managements are more evil than others). So between Java and .NET it's two evil corporations and two major technology stacks which they control. A draw?
As for languages of choice, I heard lots of nice things about Scala but then I heard a lot of nice things about F#. F# as actually created initially on Mono and its creators postulate to not marginalize Mono. Let's talk about technology stacks because languages could obviously be implemented with different back-ends.
That said ... I personally think Mono could do much better by itself if it freed itself from Microsoft completely.
My final point is that Mono is a nice open piece of technology by itself and Java that everybody uses is a buggy insecure piece of blob. How to run Minecraft on any open source Java tech?
Java is also available in AOT form through GCJ (which is not in a good shape nowadays, but the work was done years ago).
There's also the fact that the community could fork OpenJDK if they felt like it.
First party/first day support for Linux/MacOS/Windows, open source, established community process, industrial-grade implementation, vast libraries. I don't see how Mono could compete with that for now.
BTW, I'm not a Minecraft user, but from what I gather from Google it runs without problems on OpenJDK (i.e. "open source java tech").
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Originally posted by RushPL View PostCan I play Minecraft on it, host JIRA/Confluence or use it for shitty government services that need Java in the browser?
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I did the Java thing for 15+ years and was quite the advocate but it really lost me when Oracle decided to ditch some of the initial principles of elegance and strictness in favor of making a "J#", so to speak. And now it seems they are chasing after this Scala, which is an absolutely idiotic programming language.
At this point in my career I'm ready to propose that everything be scrapped but C. Everything should be C only from here on out.
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Originally posted by RushPL View PostI could agree with you on the lesser evil part but in my opinion Oracle is as evil as Microsoft is (some would argue that all corporations are evil but I would answer that some managements are more evil than others). So between Java and .NET it's two evil corporations and two major technology stacks which they control. A draw?
Originally posted by Rich Oliver View PostIf we can continue to ramp up the adoption of Scala then we can get the resources and person power to build our own Virtual Machine /native compilation, targeted at Linux free of Oracle's control..
Microsoft is notorious for having this ecosystem of developer products that leverage you into using other Microsoft products. For example, some C# LINQ features only work with SQL Server. Visual Studio only works on Windows OS. A lot of third party C# libraries and SDKs only work with the Microsoft version of .NET and assume Visual Studio and don't work with Mono. A lot of people love the Microsoft ecosystem and tie in is fine. Other people have valid reasons to avoid the Microsoft ecosystem, and it makes these technologies a poor choice.
The technology tie-in issue really isn't a problem with Oracle. Sure, Oracle has their own OS/databases/IDEs, but they don't pressure regular JDK developers to use or favor those in any way.
The other issue is that Mono and C# don't really do much that you can't do better elsewhere. It's not like they have some killer feature that no one else can match. As a pure language, C# has many advantages over C/C++ or JavaScript, but it's way behind something like Scala. F# is supposedly much better, it's a .NET port of OCaml, but if you prefer the JVM as an overall platform, you're probably just better off with Scala. I'd also suspect the ecosystem and community is more active with Scala.
Originally posted by RushPL View PostI argue that Mono is outside of direct influence of MS.
Originally posted by RushPL View PostMy final point is that [...] the Java that everybody uses is a buggy insecure piece of blob.
Originally posted by RushPL View PostI think that being able to compile your own stack (open source) is one of the biggest advantages.
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Originally posted by TheSoulz View Posti hate that they dont provide one -.-
i find myself using webupd8 ppa: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/01/insta...buntu-via.html
for easy install and update.
is there a reason why they dont provide a deb file or even better put it on the store?
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Originally posted by AJenbo View PostWhen Oracel took over Java, they changed the license so that Canonical could no longer distribute it. They said that it was just a temp thing and would lead to better things... still waiting
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Sadly some applications still only run with Oracle java, and I have a lot of users complain that installing java is non intuitive when the package they need is actually called Icedtea. Furthermore sites that require java just points to Java.com where they are just handed a tar and not given propper instructions on how to install it or that openjdk exists. In any case I find that having both easily available is better than just one
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