Mark Shuttleworth: Mir By Default In Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

[Calinou]

mir/unity is phone/tablet oriented
we will see mir-powered phones/tablets next year
who thinks that wayland/gnome is suitable for phones is an idiot
and anyway in 2016 desktop will be dead

No, just no. Unity also targets the desktop and the desktop certainly isn't dead and won't be soon, even "tower" PCs.

[toka]

Why do you keep comparing Mir to Wayland?

Mir = protocol agnostic display server. This means, it can support X11, Wayland, or something else. Is there a Mir protocol?
Wayland = protocol

[Nuc!eoN]

Seems to me that Canonical doesn't really understand open source. They're constantly missing out on the main benefits of open source, they think it's just a convenient way to get code developed for their inhouse solutions. In short, they're trying too much to be like Apple, but without having all the money, massive resources for r&d, their own hardware line, etc... And even Apple is fading already, even with their huge resources - so why does Canonical, a small company that can't even afford to release a phone without a crowdsourcing campaign, think they can succeed with the same strategy? It's just plain foolishness with possibly streaks of megalomania.

Seconded. (Y)

It's funny that the ones who compare Canonical and Shuttleworth to Apple and Jobs are the same ones who think they are entitled to tell people what is The Right Way to Work?. In open source, people do whatever they feel is right for them, and no one has the right to tell anyone how to do shit. There's no open source bible.

no

[Nuc!eoN]

Wow, how eloquent those who follow The One True Way? are! Color me impressed!

I do not intend to waste my words and time on obvious relations.

[bison]

and anyway in 2016 desktop will be dead

Very unlikely. That's like saying, "by 2016 refrigerators will be dead."

[sarmad]

When Canonical saw Wayland taking long time they thought they can do better. Are they starting to realize now that it's not an easy job, or they are still thinking they can do better than the Wayland camp?
Wayland on the mobile is already in the market (Jolla), and on the desktop it's already in preview. By the time 16.04 is released Wayland will probably be a reality already. Canonical has clearly taken the wrong path and they need to correct it soon instead of throwing their money down the drain.

[erendorn]

Mir = protocol agnostic display server. This means, it can support X11, Wayland, or something else. Is there a Mir protocol?
Wayland = protocol

Nope, it means it cannot support any protocol, neither X11 nor Wayland. There is no Mir protocol, there is a Mir API.
In the end it is not very different: a display server must present an interface so that clients can draw things on the screen.
The only thing is that all Wayland compositors use the same interface, defined by the Wayland protocol, while Mir uses its own interface, defined by its API.

Although wayland is only the protocol, it has strong implications for the architecture and the design of any implementation of it.
That is why you can compare them directly (instead of a specific implementation) regarding technicalities and architecture.
Also, it will ensure compatibility between clients and compositors following the protocol, so Mir and Wayland can be considered as two blocks when comparing adoption and the like.

[dee.]

It's funny that the ones who compare Canonical and Shuttleworth to Apple and Jobs are the same ones who think they are entitled to tell people what is The Right Way to Work?. In open source, people do whatever they feel is right for them, and no one has the right to tell anyone how to do shit. There's no open source bible.

Nice dodge! For a second it looked like it might hit you, but you cleverly managed to evade it on the last moment, and allowed the point to go flying right over your head. Seriously, this is some cinematic shit going on here!

Of course Canonical is free to do what they want. It's their money, they can invest it all in two-legged chairs if they so choose. The question is not whether they have a right to do it, the question is IS IT SMART.

And the answer is, no it's not. By constantly reinventing everything, they're not taking advantage of the main benefits of the open source model (collaboration!). You're right, they do have a right to do stupid things. It still doesn't make those things any less stupid.

[cynical]

Just like the Wayland preview for Ubuntu 12.04, Wayland by default in Ubuntu 12.10 and Mir by default in Ubuntu 13.10, right?
Mark just loves to do big announcements, it doesn't matter if he isn't probably even involved in the development process, and so he doesn't know the current status...

Seeing their record track, I think that Canonical will jump on a different ship (Like they did for upstart), or that Mir will not be ready for Ubuntu 16.04. That said, only time will tell.

EDIT: after re-reading the post, I realize that Michael already linked those/similar articles, and I feel silly. My point still applies.

And Wayland support for Gnome 3.12 was delayed as well, but I don't conclude that their approach is doomed and they should "jump ship" to something else... Fedora was also delayed a number of times on its latest release. There are always unexpected issues or expansions of scope, the only fundamental conclusion you can come to from this is that accurate predictions in software aren't easy.

[dee.]

And Wayland support for Gnome 3.12 was delayed as well, but I don't conclude that their approach is doomed and they should "jump ship" to something else...

No, because there's nothing else to jump to.

Fedora was also delayed a number of times on its latest release. There are always unexpected issues or expansions of scope, the only fundamental conclusion you can come to from this is that accurate predictions in software aren't easy.

But Fedora was never delayed because they decided that "hey, the Linux kernel just doesn't suit our needs any more somehow, so we're starting our own inhouse project, Finux, which is basically the same as Linux, does all the same things, but the difference is we get to change the APIs however we want and we will never stick to any protocol or worry about compatibility with other software".