Mark Shuttleworth: Mir By Default In Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

[Azrael5]

While all you say is true you forgot one important thing: Developers that don't want to support 2 display servers in their code but still want to let users decide which one to use will stick to X11 as it's supported through XWayland and XMir. So Mir also slows down the adaption of Wayland (and Mir itself).

xwayland and xmir means further years of useless complexity in compromise and all issues of the circumstance. Within one year, they have to port all software in wayland compatibility. Extra programs that will be not adequate are out till they do.

xorg as graphic server, is obsolete and slow, so xmir and xwayland will be necessary obsolete and slow.

[Luke]

Users are free to reject coorcive distro tactics concerning applications

xwayland and xmir means further years of useless complexity in compromise and all issues of the circumstance. Within one year, they have to port all software in wayland compatibility. Extra programs that will be not adequate are out till they do.

xorg as graphic server, is obsolete and slow, so xmir and xwayland will be necessary obsolete and slow.

If a users's programs are "out," so is the new distro that does not support them.

A requirement that no program not ported to the new display server can be run would be a guaranteed way to kill any distro. At a minimum users would quickly learn not to update to it, some who do not know how to do anything else would be forced to reinstall from their older installer image. Example: a shiny new distro that can't run Kdenlive is of no use on one of my video editing machines, so I would have no reason to install it/update to it and every reason not to.

This kind of crap is what's killing Windows 8, and fear that Windows 9 will refuse to support desktop/not in Windows store applications may have a hand in Steam's romance with Linux.

[Luke_Wolf]

While all you say is true you forgot one important thing: Developers that don't want to support 2 display servers in their code but still want to let users decide which one to use will stick to X11 as it's supported through XWayland and XMir. So Mir also slows down the adaption of Wayland (and Mir itself).

This is only true for proprietary applications, for open source applications as long as they're using a toolkit compliant with wayland (which guess what? KF5, Qt, GTK, and EFL are or are heading towards, which means like 90% of the ecosystem) the application developers quite frankly don't have to give a care what display server protocol that the user is running.

[V10lator]

This is only true for proprietary applications

So games (yes, there are many games that don't use SDL) and Skype, for example.

for open source applications as long as they're using a toolkit compliant with wayland (which guess what? KF5, Qt, GTK, and EFL are or are heading towards, which means like 90% of the ecosystem) the application developers quite frankly don't have to give a care what display server protocol that the user is running.

Are all these toolkits heading towards Mir, too? And what about the programs that don't use a toolkit compilant with Wayland and Mir?

[Luke_Wolf]

So games (yes, there are many games that don't use SDL) and Skype, for example.

Games will use whatever Valve tells them to use, period. Also since skype is written in Qt, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the notion that once Microsoft releases a Qt5 version they'll be able to just relink it to be able to run under wayland.

Are all these toolkits heading towards Mir, too? And what about the programs that don't use a toolkit compilant with Wayland and Mir?

I really couldn't care less if they're heading to Mir or not, but as far as I'm aware it's just Canonical doing the porting, and Qt will probably make it unless they really screw things up but anything else is anyone's guess.

Programs that do not use toolkits that are or will be compliant with Wayland are the vast minority (Mir again I really don't care about and I'm willing to bet most developers don't really care about either) and are exactly what XWayland is for.

[V10lator]

Games will use whatever Valve tells them to use, period.

Why should they? I just checked my first 20 Steam games: 4 (SDL2) 3 (SDL 1 - will SDL 1 be ported to Wayland/Mir?), that makes > 50% not using SDL.

Also since skype is written in Qt, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the notion that once Microsoft releases a Qt5 version they'll be able to just relink it to be able to run under wayland.

Might be, might be not, we'll see.

I really couldn't care less if they're heading to Mir or not

In a discussion about Mir... *facepalm*

Programs that do not use toolkits that are or will be compliant with Wayland are the vast minority (Mir again I really don't care about and I'm willing to bet most developers don't really care about either) and are exactly what XWayland is for.

Now please re-read what to you replied to in the first place:

While all you say is true you forgot one important thing: Developers that don't want to support 2 display servers in their code but still want to let users decide which one to use will stick to X11 as it's supported through XWayland and XMir. So Mir also slows down the adaption of Wayland (and Mir itself).

[Luke_Wolf]

Why should they? I just checked my first 20 Steam games: 4 (SDL2) 3 (SDL 1 - will SDL 1 be ported to Wayland/Mir?), that makes > 50% not using SDL.

you entirely missed what I was getting at. If Valve goes Wayland, games will go wayland, if Valve goes Mir, games will go Mir, if Valve sticks with X, games will stick with X. Why? because they control the distribution standard that developers targeting linux will now be writing to called SteamOS nothing else really matters.

In a discussion about Mir... *facepalm*

there's been plenty of discussion about an entirely different display server called Wayland in this thread that the article insured was going to happen, which is really where I came in

Now please re-read what to you replied to in the first place:

And you're entirely missing the point, besides games, LibreOffice, Firefox, and Chrome, what percentage of the software do you use on a day to day basis that isn't using either GTK, Qt, or EFL?

[MartinN]

At what point do they realise it'll be better/cheaper/faster to just give up on Mir and go back to Wayland? With a project as controversial as this (and with all the delays) do they really want to commit to debuting it in an LTS release?

Right after he removes his foot ...