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Thread: Debian Now Voting On Init System Coupling

  1. #1
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    Default Debian Now Voting On Init System Coupling

    Phoronix: Debian Now Voting On Init System Coupling

    Debian's technical committee have moved onto voting over the operating system's default init system to now voting whether they should issue any guidance concerning the coupling of packages for specific init systems(s)...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTYxMjY

  2. #2
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    Default

    So it appears that N will win

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    I hope for another round of entertainment. Let the Upstart+OpenRC clowns do their show. But keep it short this time.
    This systemd thing has become something religious. Calling "clowns" people who prefer another init system? Come on!

    I didn't defend systemd in the first place, but now that Debian and Ubuntu have picked it, I just wish them good luck, and that would be the same for Upstart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresaejunior View Post
    This systemd thing has become something religious. Calling "clowns" people who prefer another init system? Come on!
    I'm afraid that you haven't been following our friend Honton/funkSTAR for very long.

    If you as much dare to change a default GNOME setting, he will issue a fatwa on your ass and hope you get cancer.

    He has taken fundamentalism to a whole new level.

  5. #5
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    Default I wish

    I wish Canonical would have just dropped the CLA bullshit from Upstart, or since they abandoning Upstart anyway, I wish they would have just transfered it to Software in the Public Interest (SPI), Ubuntu Foundation, or the Debian Project or something.

    My understanding is that Upstart was a great solution from a technical perspective, but that Debian was forced to go with systemd due to Upstart being under CLA.

    So now we're stuck with systemd instead, which is worse for Debian and worse for Ubuntu than Upstart.

    At least Upstart could be ported to other operating systems, but systemd cannot.
    At least Upstart could switched out and replaced in the future with something better, but systemd cannot, we will be stuck with it forever.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    My understanding is that Upstart was a great solution from a technical perspective, but that Debian was forced to go with systemd due to Upstart being under CLA.
    Systemd was not forced in any way. Take a look at the discussion on debian-ctte before throwing such accusations around.

    At least Upstart could switched out and replaced in the future with something better, but systemd cannot, we will be stuck with it forever.
    Yes, the end is near... On a serious note: systemd can obviously be replaced. Considering it actually has a documented interface, I don't see what all the fuss is about.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    I wish Canonical would have just dropped the CLA bullshit from Upstart, or since they abandoning Upstart anyway, I wish they would have just transfered it to Software in the Public Interest (SPI), Ubuntu Foundation, or the Debian Project or something.

    My understanding is that Upstart was a great solution from a technical perspective, but that Debian was forced to go with systemd due to Upstart being under CLA.
    No, the CLA was only one consideration. There are many other technical reasons systemd was chosen. Read the tech ctte mailing list over the last couple of months where the members posted their analyses.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    So now we're stuck with systemd instead, which is worse for Debian and worse for Ubuntu than Upstart.
    That is your opinion, the tech ctte disagrees, as does Canonical themselves as they're the ones that chose to drop Upstart.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    At least Upstart could be ported to other operating systems, but systemd cannot.
    Only because systemd makes use of advanced features of the Linux kernel. You would rather ignore technical advancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    At least Upstart could switched out and replaced in the future with something better, but systemd cannot, we will be stuck with it forever.
    That's pure FUD. There's nothing at all to stop people from switching the same way they have switched away from sysvinit.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    I wish Canonical would have just dropped the CLA bullshit from Upstart, or since they abandoning Upstart anyway, I wish they would have just transfered it to Software in the Public Interest (SPI), Ubuntu Foundation, or the Debian Project or something.
    I can agree with that.
    Still, now that Canonical is not supporting Upstart anymore, anyone can fork it in a different project, become the new upstream, and remove the CLA.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    My understanding is that Upstart was a great solution from a technical perspective, but that Debian was forced to go with systemd due to Upstart being under CLA.
    No, really, it wasn't.
    Leaving alone the fact that systemd does much, much more than Upstart, systemd it's even a better init system.
    It's broken, and even the author endorse systemd. upstart does what openrc do in ~10 times the code.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    So now we're stuck with systemd instead, which is worse for Debian and worse for Ubuntu than Upstart.
    I'n not even going to put my opinion here. The Comittee and Canonical belive otherwise. The author of Upstart belive otherwise. Spotify belive otherwise. Thousands of happy systemd users belive otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    At least Upstart could be ported to other operating systems, but systemd cannot.
    And then? where is that port?
    Canonical has promised it for months. I have yet to see a working version of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    At least Upstart could switched out and replaced in the future with something better, but systemd cannot, we will be stuck with it forever.
    This is just stupid. Systemd has a stable api, with enough effort anyone can replace it.
    Or you mean that it's harder because it do more? By that logic, we would only have a TTY, no graphical interface at all, and probably no internet too.

  9. #9

    Default

    upstart is dead. sysV is the least favoured option. So that leaves systemd and openRC. This proposal would place a significant burden on package maintainers for what will become a very small subset of actual users. I cannot see openRC gaining much uptake on debian systems. So is the additional effort and patches to upstream packages worth it?

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by teresaejunior View Post
    This systemd thing has become something religious. Calling "clowns" people who prefer another init system? Come on!
    Oh, the people who screamed with fear and anger against the imaginary “Poettering OS” really are clowns.

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