Systemd's Network Support Frustrating Some Users

[prodigy_]

What OS is that? Just cause Fedora, Arch, SuSE, Debian and Ubuntu want to drink the Kool-Aid and sell out, there are another hundred Linux Distros that will not taint their core with the trash that is systemd.

True but all major distros adopted systemd and that's what counts. Of course at home you can use whatever you want. But imagine you're doing some assessment for a company that is going to pick its (next) Linux flavor. Good luck trying to persuade business to choose a minor distro entirely due to its technical merits.

Need to face the facts: Lennart won and we're all boned.

[Pajn]

I think Lennart should work on writing a package manager. Last step towards unification of distros!

Lennarts vision is just SytemD. It will be KernelD, WaylandD and all programs will be SystemD too,
BrowserD, VideoD, MusicD, FilesD. You wont be able to install or remove anything, everything is
just pure SystemD.

[uid313]

systemd is a never ending piece of frustration and controversy.

It seems all the time systemd is growing with new components that are being forced on everyone and cant be disabled or removed.

It is monolithic and increasingly growing and attaching itself. It is like an octopus wriggling its tentacles around its prey.

[Skrapion]

It seems all the time systemd is growing with new components that are being forced on everyone and cant be disabled or removed.

Except for the one we're talking about right now, which can be both disabled and removed. Actually, that's the way it is for most of the components.

[Skrapion]

if flash is so super cheap why would anybody put 4MB flash chips into their devices? And how many products on the market exist NOW with only 4MB flash chips? What do you think? Anyway, 'super cheap flash' argument is invalid because it's not the flash size that is guilty it's systemd size.

Are you sure you didn't confuse MB with GB? Even the Pi has 256-512 MB.

[Teho]

and what about dbus dependency? Can it be just cut?

If you use kdbus then yes. systemd 209 dropped the dependency on libdbus (in favour of libsystemd-bus) but it still requires dbus-daemon to fully funtion. It also introduced experimental kdbus support but the kdbus module has not yet been merged to mainline Linux. That should happen later this year and after that dbus-daemon can be dropped entirely. systemd PID1 hasn't ever depended on dbus to my knowledge though.

Are you sure you didn't confuse MB with GB? Even the Pi has 256-512 MB.

There's a lot of small embedded devices that have 4MB flash devices. There was a project that pushed systemd+busybox in less than 4MB (I think the charts are outdated as that could easily be trimmed more).

[curaga]

The systemd chart says 3.9mb (vs 1.12 non-systemd). On a 4mb flash that doesn't leave much space for the business logic, ie the "actual meat".

[Skrapion]

It's fair to say that systemd in not the right tool for the job if you're building a 4MB system. Neither is sysvinit.

As long as we're talking about BusyBox, the maintainer of BusyBox wrote an essay about how sysvinit must die.

[gens]

It's fair to say that systemd in not the right tool for the job if you're building a 4MB system. Neither is sysvinit.

As long as we're talking about BusyBox, the maintainer of BusyBox wrote an essay about how sysvinit must die.

sysvinit does not use memory for services it has already set up
only for a shell
thus is the good for memory constrained environments (only hard coded C or assembly would be better)

systemd is the opposite since it needs things that take up couple MB memory

[Rich Oliver]

systemd is the opposite since it needs things that take up couple MB memory

i've got 16Gig on my my not particularly high end desktop, with an option to upgrade to 32 Gig if I need to. In 2014, I don't think we should hold back the entire Linux ecosystem for devices that are too tight to provide a couple of Meg. And anyway devices will still be able to happily install kernel 3.10 with sysvinit for the next couple of years