What It Takes To Port An X11 Application To Wayland

[techzilla]

Sometimes I wonder who's paying for all these shill commenters

And while we're at it, let's not follow other open standards like X11, OSS, POSIX ... These standards suck so let's replace them with Linux-specific non-standard ways to do things (everyone uses Linux, right?). Complaining about proprietary ... ha!

The hypocrisy from the Linux community is astounding. Just earlier this century the Linux community was constantly whining about Microsoft not following standards. Now they have invented their own Linux-specific ways to do things. It's as if the rest of the Unix world didn't exist (and to be fair, Linux is starting to diverge from Unix-like).

1. This is a ridiculous statement, and you're not being honest about the legitimate problems we've faced as a community. You also are not accounting for the diverse set of opinions in the community, not everyone supports every project's implementation decisions.

2. The classic Microsoft problem is simple, they promoted proprietary closed standards.
- Microsoft Proprietary standards were closed, so intensive reverse engineering is required for any interoperability.
- Microsoft Proprietary standards were proprietary, so you could sued for violating patents/copyrights even if you used/created a clean-room implementation.
- Microsoft Proprietary standards were de-facto standards, by being used by Microsoft, they are extremely influential and thus these problems are solidified.


Now they released their OfficeOpenXML standards, and while many would say they should have just used ODF, at least the standards are open and don't present the old type of problems. So you see, if the community wanted to support these new standards, they could always create their own implementation. Sure it's extra work, but it's not near the level of reverse engineering, and sometimes new standards are legitimately required. I'll leave that to the masses to decide legitimacy, but nothing prevents the new interfaces and API's from being codified.

[yourfriendarmando]

Deps in Libre and others

Using Gentoo, Libreoffice would pull in around 500 packages for me. I am on an extremely minimal system and enjoy using abiword and gnumeric, because they are what I'd consider suckless software-titles, unlike LibreOffice, which is a beast!

Most people don't realize this nowadays, because their systems are already bloated, but I think this is a serious factor.

You do have a point, brushing over Abiword and Gnumeric, I do find they depend on far fewer key deps. I do remember even compiling then openoffice on Gentoo. The ebuilds are massive, especially all the conditionals that add more to the ./configure depending on your USE. I don't blame you for sticking to Abiword/Gnumeric. I was saved by Gnumeric once because it could handle more rows than Excel could handle at the time to parse a lengthy delimited file.

[frign]

You do have a point, brushing over Abiword and Gnumeric, I do find they depend on far fewer key deps. I do remember even compiling then openoffice on Gentoo. The ebuilds are massive, especially all the conditionals that add more to the ./configure depending on your USE. I don't blame you for sticking to Abiword/Gnumeric. I was saved by Gnumeric once because it could handle more rows than Excel could handle at the time to parse a lengthy delimited file.

Thanks my friend! I'm glad to see there are still people around with common sense and good knowledge about it .

Have a nice day!

[yourfriendarmando]

Gentoo is slways in my heart

Thanks my friend! I'm glad to see there are still people around with common sense and good knowledge about it .

Have a nice day!

How can I not be Gentoo fan? Gentoo was conceived here in my hometown. It got me through computer science, early 54g wifi stack on my laptop, and my first amd64 chip.

Have a fantastic week

[andyprough]

Having it in ODP instead of PDF meant I couldn't view it while on the train but had to wait until I got home because my smart phone doesn't have LibreOffice but it does have a PDF reader.

Viewdocsonline.com can convert most any document with a URL for online viewing. I converted these FOSDEM slides for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.viewdocsonline.com/document/li3xox

[Delgarde]

So is a world where not everyone has a PDF viewer on their computers.

Well, it *is* a built-in browser feature these days...

[Delgarde]

Packages dependent | Libreoffice-* depends on:

<clipped>

It's a long list, true - but how many are unique dependencies, and how many are just standard libraries that would be dragged in by almost anything? At a glance, there's maybe a dozen things on that list that wouldn't be part of every desktop Linux installation.... mostly it's stuff like X11, Gtk+, image loaders, etc.

[Skrapion]

The video isn't transcoded yet, but you can watch a small preview here.

[GreatEmerald]

Huh, that's true, Wayland only supports EGL/GLES at the moment... Argh... My game does use quite a few OpenGL calls (though basic ones, so they're probably not hard to port to EGL/GLES), so I'll have to go through the effort of porting it. And here I thought SDL2 would have done that automatically (but apparently it's only true for the built-in drawing functionality, which is too basic for my needs).

[mannerov]

Huh, that's true, Wayland only supports EGL/GLES at the moment... Argh... My game does use quite a few OpenGL calls (though basic ones, so they're probably not hard to port to EGL/GLES), so I'll have to go through the effort of porting it. And here I thought SDL2 would have done that automatically (but apparently it's only true for the built-in drawing functionality, which is too basic for my needs).

Euh... no

You can use OpenGL with Wayland (Weston uses OpenGL ES for rendering, but clients can use OpenGL). And your old games using GLX will work with XWayland.

The talk is just about having a system with absolutely nothing related to X. That makes sense for phones for example (Tizen, etc).
For example since OpenGL 1 headers are somehow related to X, it forbids the usage of OpenGL 1 (But you can have on your desktop OpenGL 1 applications working with EGL without installing XWayland or X).