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Latest Round Of Debian Systemd vs. Upstart Voting Ends

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  • #11
    Originally posted by phoronix View Post
    FD means that "further discussion" is still required before the technical committee will decide upon Debian's init system choice.
    flameocracy - they cannot take a simple decision.

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    • #12
      I hope they end up deciding in favor of Systemd

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      • #13
        I guest they already tested systemd and upstart in jessie... right? XD

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        • #14
          Originally posted by Ericg View Post
          I hope not the next round (third round) but the round after that (fourth round) doesn't include "Further Discussion" as an option.
          NONSENSE.
          They should make a new init kajigger, and call it "Further Discussion". Merge Systemd and Upstart code together into a marvelous thingamajig. It'll be great. Best of both whatchacallits.

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          • #15
            FD

            I've got a big box of microwave popcorn, and it's less than half gone, so.... bring it on!
            Last edited by bison; 06 February 2014, 04:28 PM. Reason: sp

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            • #16
              Originally posted by gens View Post
              http://linuxcounter.net/distributions/stats.html

              ubuntu, gentoo and slackware wont move to systemd
              so "everyone else" use init + sysv/upstart/openrc
              (with majority of people using upstart)

              ofc linuxcounter is not that precise
              you can check steam hw_survey that shows ubuntu having way more users then "other linux"
              or distrowatch for popularity that shows ubuntu+mint dominating

              the reason to switch to anything has to have nothing to do with what everyone else is doing
              they are planing their own future

              (also, most servers on teh internets run either debian or ubuntu)
              I'm guessing the only reason upstart is the majority is because of distros derived from Ubuntu. Eliminate ubuntu-based distros and upstart will probably be less used than openrc. I agree though, switching to something simply because its popular isn't inherently a good idea. Case in point, Windows.
              However
              the more popular something becomes, the more attention it gets. In the FOSS community, the more attention something gets, the project will progress more. This is probably why they aren't considering openrc.

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              • #17
                The futher discussion centers around having packages be able to support multiple init options.

                Finish up already so we can get packages sitting on their ass for 9 months back into the queue and updated.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by gens View Post
                  http://linuxcounter.net/distributions/stats.html

                  ubuntu, gentoo and slackware wont move to systemd
                  so "everyone else" use init + sysv/upstart/openrc
                  (with majority of people using upstart)

                  ofc linuxcounter is not that precise
                  you can check steam hw_survey that shows ubuntu having way more users then "other linux"
                  or distrowatch for popularity that shows ubuntu+mint dominating

                  the reason to switch to anything has to have nothing to do with what everyone else is doing
                  they are planing their own future

                  (also, most servers on teh internets run either debian or ubuntu)
                  Ubuntu uses in-house upstart due to politics.
                  Gentoo uses openrc due to stubborness.
                  Slackware uses bsdinit because it is designed with BDSM and never cares about staying broken.

                  Arch moved to systemd.
                  Manjaro, Chakra and other Archbased have moved to systemd.
                  RPM (Fedora, Openmandriva/Mageia/ROSA, OpenSuse) have moved to systemd.

                  Steam is not a survey of desktop linux.

                  Centos will switch to systemd, and Spotify who use over 1k Debian servers insisted on going systemd route.

                  Systemd is clearly technically unsurpassed.
                  The political decision is garbage argument, its all about lesser effort, lesser cost and nothing beats most supported init - systemd.
                  BSD compatibity is garbage, as indicated prior BSD are very outdated compared to Linux and broken in many places. The correct approach is to fix BSD and then bring over systemd when it stabilizes. They were also exploring launchd route ("just because state of being pissed off is an art").

                  What left is a doubt that binary and monolithic nature of systemd may be misused in corporate or military way - to dictate development and to make systems vulnerable.
                  All else - is garbage.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                    I hope not the next round (third round) but the round after that (fourth round) doesn't include "Further Discussion" as an option. Let them yell and bicker and fight all they want for now and after the next round, but after that they need to suck it up and pick something. Some people aren't gonna be happy-- OH WELL. You get that outcome in ANY choice, you CANT make everyone happy.
                    That's not what they're FD'ing for. The question of what's the default for jessie is clear, it's systemd by a tie breaker. The FD is for the T/L wording and legal things (what powers they exercise, how to legalise 1:1 overruling without changing the constitution, etc.)

                    Originally posted by Bathroom Humor View Post
                    NONSENSE.
                    They should make a new init kajigger, and call it "Further Discussion". Merge Systemd and Upstart code together into a marvelous thingamajig. It'll be great. Best of both whatchacallits.
                    I liked the example by Russ Allbery: "The default init system for jessie will be a single /etc/rc script".

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by brosis View Post
                      Ubuntu uses in-house upstart due to politics.
                      Gentoo uses openrc due to stubborness.
                      Slackware uses bsdinit because it is designed with BDSM and never cares about staying broken.

                      Arch moved to systemd.
                      Manjaro, Chakra and other Archbased have moved to systemd.
                      RPM (Fedora, Openmandriva/Mageia/ROSA, OpenSuse) have moved to systemd.

                      Steam is not a survey of desktop linux.

                      Centos will switch to systemd, and Spotify who use over 1k Debian servers insisted on going systemd route.

                      Systemd is clearly technically unsurpassed.
                      The political decision is garbage argument, its all about lesser effort, lesser cost and nothing beats most supported init - systemd.
                      BSD compatibity is garbage, as indicated prior BSD are very outdated compared to Linux and broken in many places. The correct approach is to fix BSD and then bring over systemd when it stabilizes. They were also exploring launchd route ("just because state of being pissed off is an art").

                      What left is a doubt that binary and monolithic nature of systemd may be misused in corporate or military way - to dictate development and to make systems vulnerable.
                      All else - is garbage.
                      Well put. But I never got the impression systemd was all that big. Sure compared to other init systems, its big, but to my knowledge its FOSS, so if anything bad were to happen to it we could just fork it. In other words, being large and monolithic isn't THAT big of a deal. You could say the same about linux itself.

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