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Thread: User Features Coming To GNOME 3.11.5

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by frign View Post

    I won't accuse you of having a biased opinion on this topic, given you are a RedHat-employee and speak on behalf of your company, what I understand.
    Developing free software however includes more than just paying developers to do it, the community actually using the software should also be addressed.

    “Look after the customer and the business will take care of itself” – Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s
    Those who do not pay any money for anything have no right to demand that their needs be met.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kigurai View Post
    I am a GNOME fan, and prefer the look of GTK over Qt. I would probably still use Qt over GTK if I wanted cross platform functionality. I don't think this says much at all.
    two reasons, i hate C++ and i do make applications with history from gtk pre-2. while this used to be easy and clean process, it has become fscking nightmare from gnome 3.4 or 3.6 forward (maybe there was too much faith from my side, but i actually suggested moving on RHEL7 from windows (100+ machines), while using fedora in that time to track changes. RHEL7 as being 1st stable gnome-shell distro in times when gnome-shell still made sense). in your words, i should port all apps to Qt and switch all gnome desktops i admin to KDE? i can imagine my self doing that, yea. if anything i would simply suggest to move back to windows and that's it. i actually have less problems running my gtk apps on windows than on gnome on each new version of fedora. not one single windows user ever complained even though i took some different interface turns than normal windows app

    Quote Originally Posted by kigurai View Post
    Which is strange, as G3 is really not a phone interface at all. Some elements have changed to be more touch-friendly, but it is very much optimized for keyboard and mouse.
    obviously, you never tried multilingual setup. if you did, you would know what nonsense you just said. reasoning from gnome devels is that that is application bug since it was not translated.
    not to mention... how is sticking menus to completely opposite sides of screen mouse friendly?
    how is having F10 and <Popup>+F10 for different menus keyboard friendly?
    how is sticking AppGroup with all other clusterfuck of icons gnome throws at you... user friendly? not to mention showing popup for that? brilliant idea, NOT!!!!
    not to mention complete interface breaking revamp (clientside decorations and menus) in 3.x release? @.@' what does that say? to me it is "we have no fscking clue, but it looks cool"

    and yea, i got personal beef with gnome and its development. so, you can say i'm biased. i would have 0 beef if they kept 3 as it is and work on next gen 4. at least it would be easy to explain why interface changed so much
    Last edited by justmy2cents; 02-07-2014 at 12:37 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kigurai View Post
    "We are always looking for new design contributors, so please get in touch if you want to help" -- https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/
    So, what's stopping you?
    Of yes, they say the right things on the gnome pages but the making lists, and past interactions I've read, tell a different story.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by frign View Post
    No, that's okay. It's also okay when you expect the Gnome devs to follow certain design principles when you pay them to do so (Hell, it's even part of the free software philosophy, to pay developers to do the job for you).
    From what I see here, though, RedHat's design principles focus too much on creating a shell around itself, thus meaning incompatibility with themes, unstable API and bloat.

    I won't accuse you of having a biased opinion on this topic, given you are a RedHat-employee and speak on behalf of your company, what I understand.
    Developing free software however includes more than just paying developers to do it, the community actually using the software should also be addressed.
    A prime example is the attempt to create a touch-desktop for Gnome. Hell, even Microsoft failed to force this upon their users!

    “Look after the customer and the business will take care of itself” – Ray Kroc, founder of McDonald’s
    OK, you're not getting this. RED HAT ISN'T DICTATING ANYTHING TO GNOME DEVELOPERS. They keep the small number of devs as a price of doing business and to act as both maintainers and developers for their, relatively, small desktop contracts.
    I can tell you that red hat designers, and ux folks, don't necessarily think gnome is well designed.
    Don't blame rh, the blame is solely on McCann and jakub for the design as it currently stands.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by justmy2cents View Post
    two reasons, i hate C++ and i do make applications with history from gtk pre-2. while this used to be easy and clean process, it has become fscking nightmare from gnome 3.4 or 3.6 forward (maybe there was too much faith from my side, but i actually suggested moving on RHEL7 from windows (100+ machines), while using fedora in that time to track changes. RHEL7 as being 1st stable gnome-shell distro in times when gnome-shell still made sense). in your words, i should port all apps to Qt and switch all gnome desktops i admin to KDE? i can imagine my self doing that, yea. if anything i would simply suggest to move back to windows and that's it. i actually have less problems running my gtk apps on windows than on gnome on each new version of fedora. not one single windows user ever complained even though i took some different interface turns than normal windows app
    Uhm, I am not sure exactly what you are saying here. Looking at proprietary cross-platform applications, most seem to go with Qt over Gtk. I still much prefer Gtk. That is all.


    obviously, you never tried multilingual setup. if you did, you would know what nonsense you just said. reasoning from gnome devels is that that is application bug since it was not translated.
    not to mention... how is sticking menus to completely opposite sides of screen mouse friendly?
    how is having F10 and <Popup>+F10 for different menus keyboard friendly?
    how is sticking AppGroup with all other clusterfuck of icons gnome throws at you... user friendly? not to mention showing popup for that? brilliant idea, NOT!!!!
    not to mention complete interface breaking revamp (clientside decorations and menus) in 3.x release? @.@' what does that say? to me it is "we have no fscking clue, but it looks cool"
    I seriously have no idea what you are trying to say here either.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam View Post
    Of yes, they say the right things on the gnome pages but the making lists, and past interactions I've read, tell a different story.
    So no first hand experience?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    Those who do not pay any money for anything have no right to demand that their needs be met.
    Sonadow, we're not living in a corporate environment here. If RedHat really is as user-friendly as it claims to be, it should definitely listen more to their users rather than forcing a certain model onto them.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam View Post
    OK, you're not getting this. RED HAT ISN'T DICTATING ANYTHING TO GNOME DEVELOPERS. They keep the small number of devs as a price of doing business and to act as both maintainers and developers for their, relatively, small desktop contracts.
    I can tell you that red hat designers, and ux folks, don't necessarily think gnome is well designed.
    Don't blame rh, the blame is solely on McCann and jakub for the design as it currently stands.
    Thanks for clearing that up, but isn't it confusing? RedHat pays a bunch of developers, I read a lot of stuff on "corporate identity" in their MLs. How much is Gnome influenced by RedHat and how much is it based on a few individuals like MkCann and jakub?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by frign View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up, but isn't it confusing? RedHat pays a bunch of developers, I read a lot of stuff on "corporate identity" in their MLs. How much is Gnome influenced by RedHat and how much is it based on a few individuals like MkCann and jakub?
    It's ok if you have an opinion, but please do your own research. Quit calling ad hominem on nothing. Wtf are you talking about with corporate identify? GNOME is not a company, it is a project. Adam explained a few things to you already. Sitting by the sidelines while knowing shit all and talking trash is all you've shown up to now. And to repeat: if a blog takes quotes totally out of context, you're a troll for responding with "ad hominem" and saying it is respectable. Time to sod off.

  10. #30
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    Cool 7|?0!!5

    Quote Originally Posted by bkor View Post
    It's ok if you have an opinion, but please do your own research. Quit calling ad hominem on nothing. Wtf are you talking about with corporate identify? GNOME is not a company, it is a project. Adam explained a few things to you already. Sitting by the sidelines while knowing shit all and talking trash is all you've shown up to now. And to repeat: if a blog takes quotes totally out of context, you're a troll for responding with "ad hominem" and saying it is respectable. Time to sod off.
    Dude, what's your problem?

    I especially criticized the Gnome-devs for talking about the corporate identity. And if you don't understand what an ad-hominem-argument is, you should sod off yourself, dude. And you got that right: Gnome IS a project, that's the point! We are discussing the corporate influence here, and when Gnome-devs start talking about a corporate identity, then this is something to criticize. Congratulations for finding that out!

    Gnome really isn't a topic I enjoy talking about. We have a company _or_ a few individuals who messed things up badly and now we have a piece of shit which is unusable for many.
    So please excuse me as I go back to work on software which sucks less while you kids find out who's fault it is now (great point of discussion!).

    Have a nice day.

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