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Thread: Future Of Fedora Spins Is Questioned With Fedora.Next

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    Weren't Novell and OpenSUSE supposed to be KDE's biggest contributors?
    They were in the past. Attachmate cares mostly for a cloud computing solution. As I wrote earlier: SUSE's KDE developers either no longer work for SUSE or they were reassigned to new tasks. The same is true for Gnome, btw. That's why Evolution is almost unsupported these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    And Novell / Attachmate / the OpenSUSE team clearly aim for OpenSUSE to be the best ever KDE distribution:
    http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:No_1_KDE_strategy
    openSUSE is a great KDE distribution. Nowhere do I deny that.
    However the corporate focus changed and that's why SUSE apparently no longer employs anybody who can fix bugs in GPU drivers.
    As I wrote earlier: openSUSE can't boot on my both laptops due driver problems. Same with all other distributions other than Fedora.
    I don't know why I have to repeat myself. It's not like there were countless other posts inbetween, but again: I rather take Fedora where I can boot into Plasma Desktop, even though KDE software is officially a second class citizen there, over distributions with Plasma Desktop as default but broken drivers that cause my PC to boot into a black screen…

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by interested View Post
    I have been a Red Hat /Fedora user since RH 4.2. I like Fedora and its pace, and on the whole been satisfied with its direction, except of course that I use KDE instead of the Gnome.

    But there is something incredible creepy about the entire "Fedora.next" process. It is all top down steering, with vague and unclear goals.

    I may be wrong about this, but there seems to be a underlining sub text in what is going on right now, that Gnome will be the only official, tier one supported desktop, with other DE's hidden way and dropped to "barely tolerated" support.

    So if the Fedora.next project effectively is going to nerf KDE, I will be leaving.
    i might misunderstood this, but...

    i think KDE could only get better. talk is about QA.
    right now spin QA fails under Fedora which basically creates distraction since some spins fail to build. but, if QA fails on spin maintainer, then they need to be involved more in the process. right now it falls on people who are not involved with spin.

    basically, Fedora it self can progress faster while spins maintain them selves into being active instead of slowly rotting from not being maintained.

    from one of mail-s "The idea is to encourage active spin process, inactive spins will auto retire by policy if they fail."

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
    They were in the past. Attachmate cares mostly for a cloud computing solution. As I wrote earlier: SUSE's KDE developers either no longer work for SUSE or they were reassigned to new tasks. The same is true for Gnome, btw. That's why Evolution is almost unsupported these days.
    I guess you are referring to Evolution in SUSE here? Evolution upstream was abandoned by SUSE entirely but Red Hat has three or so full time developers assigned to it since the post at https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evol.../msg00046.html.

    Since they went private, SUSE has stopped or atleast heavily reduced their participation in a lot of projects including LibreOffice and I guess that is part of their effort to target their attention to a few small areas to increase profitability. It is probably the right decision for them.

  4. #34
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    https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipe...ry/195030.html and the follow-up (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipe...ry/195031.html) are more the direction I would like see the conversation head. While the following can border on a subjective pitfall, I would like to know if individual spins fill perceptible demands, if their respective foci and usage constitute enough value for the Fedora Project to justify their continuance, how engaged/invested the maintainers are, what process improvements can be made, and if (any of) the spins could be incorporated under Fedora.next. If any spins are jettisoned and the maintainers feel strongly about their viability, are there any open channels with remix communities where these spins might be able to find a new home?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by eidolon View Post
    https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipe...ry/195030.html and the follow-up (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipe...ry/195031.html) are more the direction I would like see the conversation head. While the following can border on a subjective pitfall, I would like to know if individual spins fill perceptible demands, if their respective foci and usage constitute enough value for the Fedora Project to justify their continuance, how engaged/invested the maintainers are, what process improvements can be made, and if (any of) the spins could be incorporated under Fedora.next. If any spins are jettisoned and the maintainers feel strongly about their viability, are there any open channels with remix communities where these spins might be able to find a new home?
    http://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01...t-fedora-next/
    https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipe...ry/008827.html

    these 2 are much clearer in what is happening. if this is what fedora.next is... i love it

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by justmy2cents View Post
    if this is what fedora.next is... i love it


    I'm actually not nearly as dubious of Fedora.next as that clip might imply, but I couldn't resist.

  7. #37
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    Well, from what I see here: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipe...ry/008832.html

    It appears that Fedora is thinking of focusing the Workstation to Gnome as the default desktop and is not removable, as wlll be the case with any package that is shipped by default in Workstation. So any other desktop will have to be installed in addition to Gnome. Which means: you must have Gnome + any other desktop of your choice but Gnome must stay.

    Basically, it comes down to this: is it a default in Fedora Workstation? Yes? You may not remove it under any circumstances. Remove it, and it's no longer Fedora Workstation and don't expect any support on it, because it will not be supported (no bug reports for you!). Christian's response makes it quite clear:

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Schaller
    Of course for power users there is still the command line tools and we are not going to do anything to try stop people from using those command line tools to change their system however they want. Only thing I can see us doing is that if we at some point is to maybe cancel automatic bug reporting through brt on systems that have seen manual surgery (not sure how we detect that), to avoid distorting our bug statistics with user caused issues, but that is an issue for later times in the case we end up having data indicating that it actually is an issue.

    source: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipe...ry/008838.html
    Last edited by Sonadow; 02-01-2014 at 05:19 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eidolon View Post


    I'm actually not nearly as dubious of Fedora.next as that clip might imply, but I couldn't resist.
    lol, best... comment... evah

    that really brought some memories, lol. and it was deserved on me not explaining it more

    ok, here is my best try. i'm NOT gnome fan, but as far as fedora goes... you could say i'm real fan of how it is evolving and avid user. to be more explicit, there are 2 things that i hate more than any DE. gnome-shell and new nautilus, where both projects consist of completely blind and deaf developers, who to our misfortune also think they know what usability is. i used to try and provide feedback, examples... in my history in order to explain why some things are moronic. all to get response "lalalala, don't hear ya, but i know exactly what you need... more than you do". but, to speak the truth... whole thing with dialog buttons on top now makes me wanna ditch gnome all tohether. this is becoming downright bordering stupid

    that was the time when i started searching for alternative in cinnamon. but, if anyone ever tried to remove nautilus... they know what nightmare that is. since then i moved to korora and i couldn't be happier. i still get all the good from fedora and gnome-developers working on shell&nautilus can stick it to where sun doesn't shines. same goes for all my friends who use fedora... everyone is now on korora cinnamon, more or less

    so yeah, i decided on study fedora.next and simply decide if i want to stay or move to something else as 1st outlook seemed really bleak.

    p.s. i'm pretty lucky here since i never let my self be clouded by conspiracy theorist in me prematurely. most ppl suffer from one mistake, as soon as they find one person speaking contrary to their belief (be it by design or just by pure wording) here they go posting that part all over the net as truth forgetting 2 things. one person+one mail is not consensus between people unless it states something like "these are boards final decisions". 2nd thing is that you can be sure there are ppl like you (i'll use KDE spin as example here) who will fight that extremist. KDE simply has too many fans to be able to be excluded by one mindless singleton

    *** from here on is how i understand it, please feel free to correct me. at least i get sense that most ppl talking there are

    as it seems fedora.next is basically defining packages that construct "Workstation" where fedora can guarantee developers that it will run if they use x&y libs. those packages CAN BE removed, but at that time you lose "Workstation" status where it is up to you to provide packages will be there. this again is not even concerning software that is installed trough yum, only binary distribution. and binary distribution is one of things where Fedora.Next is touching since not every app is providing rpm+yum

    ok, what with spins? spins right now had 2 problems. too easy to make and too easy to break (one has to think that fedora is pioneering in whole lot of things, so easy to make structure is prone to breaking), so lots of spins didn't deserve enough love and when they break, they fall on wrong people which are not involved. those spins should either move to remix (aka. become non-blockable entity in fedora process) or be declared as subproject (aka. blockable). and to be declared as subproject, spin has to respect "fedora workstation" guidelines. and most ppl on those lists agree that DE should not be requirement. instead, DE is required to conform to guidelines

    one thing that has to be admitted is that if spin was not maintained, it was rotting due to fast structural changes.
    Last edited by justmy2cents; 02-01-2014 at 07:12 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by justmy2cents View Post
    since then i moved to korora and i couldn't be happier. . . . same goes for all my friends who use fedora... everyone is now on korora cinnamon, more or less
    Is user migration to remixes (if not elsewhere) considered a "win" for the Fedora Project? If not, will Fedora.next improve upon this, or compound it? [To be clear, this is not a rhetorical question on my part.]

    Quote Originally Posted by justmy2cents View Post
    *** from here on is how i understand it, please feel free to correct me.
    Right now, I'm very much in wait-and-see mode myself, and, as much as my curiosity will let me, I don't want to leap to any assumptions, for good or for ill. As of now, I haven't seen any definite indication that I must have GNOME 3 installed to be welcome to the party (though I probably won't have a sanctioned "Fedora Workstation" as a result). But I will say upfront that I'm NOT going to have GNOME 3 installed under any circumstances as I will not be using it. This isn't knee-jerk, green-eggs-and-ham sentiment, I honestly tried with it, went through the five stages of grief, and I'm no longer invested in its future.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    ...feel free to participate in the discussions directly if you want to to make sure the concerns are addressed.
    This can very much be a double-edged sword. While I am still uncertain about what the future holds myself, the misguided, counterproductive crusading and nonconstructive noise added to the mailing lists does no one any favors and adds zero clarity.
    Last edited by eidolon; 02-03-2014 at 06:18 PM.

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