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Thread: X.Org Server Systemd Integration Proposed

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by kigurai View Post
    build your own systemd-free system.
    This is what I am doing. But it is getting harder because there are fewer and fewer components I can re-use.

    People used to be proud of having their code portable and sharable. Its sad thats no longer the case.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by caligula View Post
    The problem with alternatives is the lack of good audio sink switching capability. ALSA supports switching the recording device, but not output device unless you have a special HDMI capable hardware with many HDMI ports. Then it lets you pick the port dynamically. My only solution is to output audio to all devices if I don't use PulseAudio. PulseAudio doesn't work well if you also don't run systemd, dbus and soon kdbus.
    So what you are saying is: Because I have the need to run Pulseaudio in my configuration it should be mandatory for anyone else to also use Pulseaudio. And because I propose that Pulseaudio works best with systemd (by the way, I have no problems to use it on systemd-free systems) everyone else should be forced to use systemd.

    Happily, that is not how it works.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAXI View Post
    I know this wasn't serious, but still:

    OSS and alsa is useless, but pulseaudio could work.
    Pulseaudio is fine for things like playing back music/videos or playing wooshy sounds on startup.

    If you need anything with low latencies, it becomes worse than useless - actually an obstacle. Every serious audio application on Linux considers PA a joke or afterthought, and uses either ALSA or Jack as main audio backends.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by caligula View Post
    The problem with alternatives is the lack of good audio sink switching capability. ALSA supports switching the recording device, but not output device unless you have a special HDMI capable hardware with many HDMI ports. Then it lets you pick the port dynamically. My only solution is to output audio to all devices if I don't use PulseAudio. PulseAudio doesn't work well if you also don't run systemd, dbus and soon kdbus.
    Thing is, you're projecting your needs on the whole community. While audio switching and multi-seat are valid needs for you, they are not for everyone, and especially not if they force other tradeoffs. You advocated for your convenience over the convenience of others.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    Thing is, you're projecting your needs on the whole community. While audio switching and multi-seat are valid needs for you, they are not for everyone, and especially not if they force other tradeoffs. You advocated for your convenience over the convenience of others.
    You're right, but I don't see this as a problem. Most Linux users are desktop users and want a good desktop experience. You all know the "Is this the year of desktop Linux?" jokes. Linux will never be ready for desktop unless some things are forced. These features require tons of testing. For example PulseAudio is buggy and apparently the zero-copying API does not work if some guys here complain about latencies that are better with JACK. We need to dogfood users with broken mandatory desktop features to make them work in the coming years. After the initial pain it all will work flawlessly. It just requires huge amount of work on all fronts.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Pulseaudio is fine for things like playing back music/videos or playing wooshy sounds on startup.

    If you need anything with low latencies, it becomes worse than useless - actually an obstacle. Every serious audio application on Linux considers PA a joke or afterthought, and uses either ALSA or Jack as main audio backends.
    But you have to understand that mainstream distro will be targeted at media consumers first and audio professionals second.
    If you use a serious audio application then use bare Alsa, or even better, Jack, and it's all good. Pulse just makes more sense as the default, that's all.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncopa View Post
    This is what I am doing. But it is getting harder because there are fewer and fewer components I can re-use.

    People used to be proud of having their code portable and sharable. Its sad thats no longer the case.
    People used to be proud of having their code pander to the lowest common denominator? Because there is a reason why systemd doesn't work on BSDs, and it's the lack of proper kernel features required for the functionality.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudregues View Post
    Good but not enough, I want:
    - OSS, alsa and pulseaudio systemd integration
    - X11, Wayland and Mir systemd integration
    - KDE, Gnome, XFCE, E19, Mate, LXDE and Unity systemd integration
    - More systemd integration in the kernel (better if systemd makes part of it)
    - OpenRC, Sysvinit and Upstart systemd integration
    - Steam OS and Valve games systemd integration
    - gmail systemd integration
    - polkit, consolekit, PAM, dbus, udev and eudev systemd integration
    - systemd as default requirement for any GNU/Linux (this case user must use systemd) and optional for GNU/Hurd and *BSD (this case the user can choose between using or not)
    - Raspberry Pi support

    Well, let's do some feature request in bugzilla!!!
    Systemd is all good!!! It's better than Linus projects (I think people call it "Linux").
    I 100% agree!
    we also need: bash, sh, rc, (d)ash systemd integration
    forced systemd for plan9, minix, hurd, *bsd, solaris, aix, windows, emacs
    sudo, gcc, llvm, clang, su, grep, grub, ls, echo, cat, vi(m), ed, acme, nano etc... systemd integration
    x86, SPARC, ARM, IA64, MIPS, alpha systemd integration and systemd instructions
    firefox, chrom(e/ium), netsurf, w3m(.el), lynx systemd integration
    BSD and GPL license systemd integration
    C, C++, D, ALGOL, FORTRAN, Haskal, F#, C#, Erlang, Scala, Java, Perl5, Perl6, Perl9, python, ruby, javascript, brainfuck, etc... systemd integration

  9. #59
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    well... I guess XFree86 isn't a bad idea after all

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Pulseaudio is fine for things like playing back music/videos or playing wooshy sounds on startup.

    If you need anything with low latencies, it becomes worse than useless - actually an obstacle. Every serious audio application on Linux considers PA a joke or afterthought, and uses either ALSA or Jack as main audio backends.
    Can you please provide a link to quantitatively tested use case that backs up your issue with latency?

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