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Fedora Users Still Have Mixed Feelings Over DNF

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  • #21
    Originally posted by cbamber85 View Post
    DNF is racing parlance for "Did Not Finish".
    Somehow that was also my first thought when I saw the "DNF" name: "Wow, who names their package manager Did Not Finish!".

    (Apparently it's not an abbreviation, officially.)

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    • #22
      Originally posted by rdnetto View Post
      Sabayon has a Python-based package manager, and it hasn't had any problems. It's about as fast as apt-get, though searches seem a lot slower than eix.
      Python? Hahaha, so slow.
      Look at OpenSUSE, they're moving to Ruby for their package manager, at least they're getting something right.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by intellivision View Post
        Python? Hahaha, so slow.
        Look at OpenSUSE, they're moving to Ruby for their package manager, at least they're getting something right.
        That was for YaST not zypper, the package manager (other than the UI portion in YaST) has not and isn't in the process of being changed to ruby, it's in C++ and it's going to stay that way. YaST was written in a proprietary scripting language called YCP which was causing a huge maintenance burden and so they rewrote it in ruby to lower the barrier to entry and remove the bus factor.

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        • #24
          Michal where's the " Quick Reply " button gone for the forum? anyway here's the wiki website for DNF

          dnf is a package manager based on yum and libsolv. Contribute to akozumpl/dnf development by creating an account on GitHub.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
            I'm confused, why would there be a command that removes all kernels including the one you're using?

            And if somebody supplies a good enough reason for that, why couldn't this effect be achieved by adding dnf remove all-kernels or dnf remove kernel --all as a command/flag?
            Consistency. If it works that way for any other package it shouldn't be different for the kernel.
            If you launch a package management command you should start your brain first and not hope that the package manager will sort out your mistakes. In fact, I would expect from a package manager that it does exactly what I tell it and not has a guessing subroutine like "Oh, this command will remove a package I deem essential, I will deny to remove it as default".
            It would be far more logical to have an extra command like "clean-kernels" to remove anything but the running kernel.
            I have no Fedora system to test, how does yum remove kernel behave if you are running a kernel that has no corresponding package, for example a self-compiled one?

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            • #26
              Originally posted by DanL View Post
              I don't know. The syntax could very well make sense when learning DNF from scratch, but if it's dangerous for yum users, then I can't see why the dev(s) wouldn't add a safeguard (at least temporarily). Maybe they think those extra 2 if statements would be inelegant or "add bloat" or something...
              Any two little 'convenience features' of yum don't seem to add much bloat, but part of the point of DNF is to try and make the code base rather cleaner than yum's has become, and the 'convenience features' of yum are a large part of what makes it a messy codebase.

              For instance, yum supports two different syntaxes with different grammars for handling package groups. "yum @install foo" and "yum group install foo" mean (well...just about...) the same thing. But because of how it does command parsing, they aren't actually backed by the same function - there are two different functions in two different bits of yum's code, doing more or less the same thing in two different code styles. It's that kind of thing they're trying to avoid with DNF, I think.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by AdamW View Post
                Any two little 'convenience features' of yum don't seem to add much bloat, but part of the point of DNF is to try and make the code base rather cleaner than yum's has become, and the 'convenience features' of yum are a large part of what makes it a messy codebase.

                For instance, yum supports two different syntaxes with different grammars for handling package groups. "yum @install foo" and "yum group install foo" mean (well...just about...) the same thing. But because of how it does command parsing, they aren't actually backed by the same function - there are two different functions in two different bits of yum's code, doing more or less the same thing in two different code styles. It's that kind of thing they're trying to avoid with DNF, I think.
                Speaking of which, are the groups ever gonna get fixed in F20, Adam? I tried installing the fedora-eclipse group package tonight in Apper and it returned Group Not Found. Read somewhere that the last thing you should do is run the command where it either checks the groups consistency or rebuilds the actual groups into their individual packages (i forget, it was like the day of the release) because it can hose your system
                All opinions are my own not those of my employer if you know who they are.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                  Speaking of which, are the groups ever gonna get fixed in F20, Adam? I tried installing the fedora-eclipse group package tonight in Apper and it returned Group Not Found. Read somewhere that the last thing you should do is run the command where it either checks the groups consistency or rebuilds the actual groups into their individual packages (i forget, it was like the day of the release) because it can hose your system
                  It is pretty comprehensively documented at

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                    I'm confused, why would there be a command that removes all kernels including the one you're using?

                    And if somebody supplies a good enough reason for that, why couldn't this effect be achieved by adding dnf remove all-kernels or dnf remove kernel --all as a command/flag?
                    I think it's the other way around. Why would you use "yum/dnf remove kernel" and not expect it to remove the kernel?
                    If you want to clean old kernels, there is a specific command that does exactly what you would expect:
                    "package-cleanup --oldkernels --count=2" (where --count is the number of kernels you want to keep).
                    Cleaning your kernels using remove seems like awful practice to me, and the fact that it happen to work is certainly not an excuse.
                    It reminds me of programmers using undefined constructs that happen to work with the compiler they are using: yes it works, no you should not do that.

                    note: I think that protected packages can be a good idea, what I'm saying is that it should not be used that way, or relied upon.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                      Speaking of which, are the groups ever gonna get fixed in F20, Adam? I tried installing the fedora-eclipse group package tonight in Apper and it returned Group Not Found. Read somewhere that the last thing you should do is run the command where it either checks the groups consistency or rebuilds the actual groups into their individual packages (i forget, it was like the day of the release) because it can hose your system
                      That doesn't sound exactly like any of the yum problems we had around release, in fact. It coming from Apper kind of obscures things too - there's two extra layers in there (Apper itself and PK). Does the same thing happen if you use yum directly?

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