Debian Still Debating Systemd vs. Upstart Init System

[RahulSundaram]

*I know systemd isn't architecturally monolithic, and it's possible to omit unwanted components, but as the developers aren't willing to maintain stable interfaces between said components very little of it is of use except as part of the greater structure

For the really optional components, systemd developers are very much willing to maintain stable interfaces and have documented them clearly more than any other alternative

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InterfacePortabilityAndStabilityChart/

[busukxuan]

No we don't and no the "simplicity" your mentioned is long gone (for good) and no, it was Upstart who continued to evolve in the corner per design.
The only ones who adapted it are Ubuntu and ChromeOS + Maemo, with later doing it only due to its age when there was BSD/Sysv/Upstart, but no systemd/launchd.

Chrome OS? Oh I didn't know.
But I also heard something about RHEL6. They said they included Upstart, but I'm not sure if it's enabled by default or what. I also heard they are not including it anymore in RHEL7

[RahulSundaram]

Chrome OS? Oh I didn't know.
But I also heard something about RHEL6. They said they included Upstart, but I'm not sure if it's enabled by default or what. I also heard they are not including it anymore in RHEL7

RHEL 6 did include upstart but the vast majority of packages still used sysv scripts and the conversion to upstart never happened. Then systemd came along as a more feature rich system and Fedora switched first and now RHEL 7 has indeed switched to systemd as well.

[busukxuan]

It was Upstart who continued to evolve in the corner per design.

Yes, that's why I said someone needs to adopt it, to stop that evolution path.
But then, since you said

No we don't and no the "simplicity" your mentioned is long gone (for good)

then perhaps my point is now irrelevant.

[AdamW]

With two Canonical employees in the Debian Technical Committee and Ian (Ex-Canonical employee), there are currently atleast three votes in favor of upstart.

I'm not sure it's quite cricket to make such an assumption, Rahul. Debian's a venerable organization and I'd want to have strong evidence before asserting that someone on one of its high-level steering committees would cast a vote based solely on their employment affiliation.

(I don't imagine you'd respond well to the same aspersion cast on Red Hat staff in a similar situation, would you?)

[AdamW]

Debian is not a woman - it should not try to please everyone, who are in disagreement due to own features, because this way it will just weaken everyone.
Debian should do it as man and give everyone conflicting own playroom

...seriously? It's not 1985 any more, dude.

[Annabel]

You must not be have read the discussions at all then. Both Upstart and systemd use Linux specific API's extensively and neither can run on anything other than Linux at the moment. Moreoever Debian is going to adopt systemd components like logind regardless of whether they use systemd as a init system.

I have read the discussions, but I have read the Upstart about porting the upstart in oher systems too

[RahulSundaram]

I'm not sure it's quite cricket to make such an assumption, Rahul. Debian's a venerable organization and I'd want to have strong evidence before asserting that someone on one of its high-level steering committees would cast a vote based solely on their employment affiliation.

(I don't imagine you'd respond well to the same aspersion cast on Red Hat staff in a similar situation, would you?)

Right but that wasn't my intention. If someone says you are only voting for something because of the company you work for, that would be an assumption in bad faith but there is much more to it here. Both of them have been active contributors to upstart and Steve is the maintainer of upstream Upstart and they have passionately advocated for upstart naturally and since they work for Canonical, it only helps to reinforce their beliefs in the system they work on. Ian also has clearly been in favor of Upstart from the start of the discussion and I don't think some amount of bias in that regard can be discounted. In other words, if someone tells me, hey you working for Red Hat means that it wouldn't be a surprise that you would favor Fedora, I would agree with that. That of course doesn't mean that everyone who works for Red Hat likes Fedora and I know quite a few who passionately hate it or atleast think something like Debian or Ubuntu is even a better solution and run it themselves

[RahulSundaram]

I have read the discussions, but I have read the Upstart about porting the upstart in oher systems too

You probably didn't read into the details then. No such port that actually works currently exists and none of the porting efforts or anywhere close to being functional at all. In other words, no real practical relevance.

[nightmarex]

I got the popcorn but the kid gloves have yet to come off, I am disappointed.

Honestly, I hope they choose systemd just to read the comments that would follow. I can almost see them now....