Debian Still Debating Systemd vs. Upstart Init System

[Annabel]

You probably didn't read into the details then. No such port that actually works currently exists and none of the porting efforts or anywhere close to being functional at all. In other words, no real practical relevance.

This is not even what I said

[rohcQaH]

I have never used systemd, nor upstart, and I cannot judge them on technical merits.

But whenever I read discussions about them, I've always found the explanations of systemd's advantages to be more compelling, those arguing for systemd to be more coherent in their explanations, and most arguments against systemd were.. non-technical.


SysVInit sucks, and OpenRC (which I currently use on gentoo) has it's flaws, too. From what I read, systemd neatly solves all my complaints about OpenRC, and then some. I'm looking forward to try it on my systems once gentoo integration has matured enough.

[Nobu]

This is not even what I said

Can't really blame him for misunderstanding--I would give him credit for even trying. What exactly does " read the Upstart about porting the upstart" mean?

[FLHerne]

For the really optional components, systemd developers are very much willing to maintain stable interfaces and have documented them clearly more than any other alternative
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Soft...tabilityChart/

Thanks for reminding me of that page - it's a bit better than I remembered - but it's still the case that several important sections couldn't be reliably reimplemented, and very few of the systemd implementations are supported to work with other init systems.

[leif81]

I didn't even know Russ Allbery by name until this thread, but reading his responses gives me confidence Debian will make a careful decision. He seems to make many incredibly thoughtful and balanced points in a discussion dominated by so many who seem to have their minds made up already.

[valeriodean]

Well, from me there is a (useless) +1 to systemd.
They plan to use logind in the near future but they are still debating for systemd as PID 1?
What is the advantages about the stupid combination of upstart + logind (<= 204!) instead of the full systemd package (update to the last issue instead of the old 204, of course)?
Nothing, other than more work to reinvent the features that upstart miss respect to systemd in order to reach the actual (not the future!) level of systemd. LOL, sounds really stupid.
By the way, the Debian's TC is composed by 8 people (but the chairman has the casting vote), to now we have:
Upstart with 3 vote to favor (before any work on the two init system's comparison)
I have hard time to call this a honest start of the race, if you ask me.
Then Russ spoken for systemd, so we are 3-1.

Unfortunately upstart have 3 match ball to his side because the ex canonical employes.
No, I don't trust them. Because they are humans and humans often take decision influenced also by their past and their feeling about their old work and projects, so I don't think they started to approach the problem with an aseptic and open mind about systemd and upstart.
Sorry, you have no changes to convince me about that.

[doom_Oo7]

Please do choose the future and systemd... I really don't want to learn Fedora or Arch...

[Vax456]

From what I read, systemd neatly solves all my complaints about OpenRC, and then some. I'm looking forward to try it on my systems once gentoo integration has matured enough.

The only thing Gentoo really needs is more systemd service scripts. You can emerge systemd now and get most of your services running, and can write your own for what you're missing. systemd service files are pretty easy to write and systemd is HEAVILY documented.

[BeardedGNUFreak]

Please god let Debian chose systemd.

Watching the systemd fiasco unfold and spread throughout the Linux world is like a horrible car accident you just can't help from gawking at.

[Bathroom Humor]

Whatever they choose (and for whatever reasons), hopefully the users won't get screwed over by it. I seriously doubt they will anyway but just saying