Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: Mir Is Still Overwhelmingly A Canonical-Only Affair

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tmpdir View Post
    Why would nobody care about MIR?.
    That's not what I said. Only that non Ubuntu users probably won't care and Ubuntu users like me will be irritated by his style of writing. Like it was a big thing that Ubuntu's project is primarily Ubuntu's, and he was currently, after all this time, OVERWHELMED by that fact.

    Seems like an exaggeration =)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjotn View Post
    That's not what I said. Only that non Ubuntu users probably won't care and Ubuntu users like me will be irritated by his style of writing. Like it was a big thing that Ubuntu's project is primarily Ubuntu's, and he was currently, after all this time, OVERWHELMED by that fact.

    Seems like an exaggeration =)
    Easy, Phoronix is a tabloid for tech savvy Linux users, which means that it works on same rules as tabloids and other bullshit media. What you see in his post here is "fueling hatred" for Ubuntu, cause atm among elitist Linux users hating Ubuntu is trendy.

    Thing is, why people care about MIR and Ubuntu if they don't use it? They could just focus on Wayland and let Canonical do their thing. I'll tell you why. It's because non-buntu developers (and companies backing them up - like Intel or Redhat) are scared of Canonical success, they feel like if Ubuntu becomes a mainstream thing on desktop and mobile, they will be left behind from this fast moving "Linux going mainstream" train.

    Hating Ubuntu is a thing, but hey, if you look at non-Linux media the only Linux you see is either Ubuntu or recently SteamOS. Mainstream media do not care about Gnome, Redhat, Wayland and other distros - Canonical and Valve are faces of Linux world in world media, deal with it or make better products (from marketing point of view, not technical).

  3. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gutigen View Post
    Easy, Phoronix is a tabloid for tech savvy Linux users, which means that it works on same rules as tabloids and other bullshit media. What you see in his post here is "fueling hatred" for Ubuntu, cause atm among elitist Linux users hating Ubuntu is trendy.

    Thing is, why people care about MIR and Ubuntu if they don't use it? They could just focus on Wayland and let Canonical do their thing. I'll tell you why. It's because non-buntu developers (and companies backing them up - like Intel or Redhat) are scared of Canonical success, they feel like if Ubuntu becomes a mainstream thing on desktop and mobile, they will be left behind from this fast moving "Linux going mainstream" train.

    Hating Ubuntu is a thing, but hey, if you look at non-Linux media the only Linux you see is either Ubuntu or recently SteamOS. Mainstream media do not care about Gnome, Redhat, Wayland and other distros - Canonical and Valve are faces of Linux world in world media, deal with it or make better products (from marketing point of view, not technical).
    I agree with you highly on the 1st and 3rd points, but the 2nd point is where I'm a little puzzled. Canonical is still a very small company compared to RedHat and Intel. Their success probably won't change much unless Jolla's Sailfish phone is changing some numbers as we speak. Linux itself has been mainstream to servers at least, so RedHat, Intel, anybody really shouldn't have anything to fear, even though Canonical is going in strong and while their first hardware partner is unknown, the fact that they have a partner is somewhat threatening... but FFOS and Tizen already have more than enough partners, right? And Tizen is backed by Intel too! What exactly justifies their fears when there shouldn't be any in the first place?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by profoundWHALE View Post
    Can't tell if serious or not. Unless you've never spoken to normal people who don't visit sites like this, they tend to know the name Ubuntu before the name linux. And if you're too high up on your elitist mountain to notice how far they've gone, then at least do something about it, I'd like you to see you try.
    True, but count how many of them actually use it, and then try to make a comparison. Most people I know that actually tried Ubuntu know how to code (they are not programmers, but they do know the basics), for a start. Only one friend comes to mind that never go interested in programming, but she uses Kubuntu, and is kind of a free software zealot, so she'd probably be pissed off when she finds about Mir. Also, she does know MatLab/Octave, so I can't even say she doesn't grasp any programming knowledge.
    My point, users are mostly as geek as we are, and as marginal as we (Phoronix users, as for distro, I use Xubuntu) are. Knowing about Ubuntu existence and using it are different things.

    Personally, my numbers favor Ubuntu, but both mine and yours seem to be highly subjective, as being mediatic (or being in one's environment, in my case) and being used are different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmpdir View Post
    Why would nobody care about MIR? Ubuntu is still one of the most used distro out there.

    The MIR branch stinks, but it does matter because its what a lot of linux (ubuntu) users are going to use.

    Sadly enough Ubuntu is my distro of choice to, although I'm eying debian as an suitable replacement when MIR gets mainlined in ubuntu.
    Still, it doesn't fits anyone else needs, it doesn't aim to fit them, AND they have to give the sole right to relicense the code base to Canonical, so why would anyone else bother programming it? People coding for free is not likely to put effort in developing something that doesn't fit them, and people being paid to code, well, will be paid by companies interested in the project, which is and will be only Canonical, as they don't try to fit anyone else's needs. It shouldn't surprise nor overwhelm anyone, and I think Canonical understood from moment zero they weren't going to have many outsider contributors, and took that into acount, so Phoronix should quit being surprised by that fact.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Bulgaria for now
    Posts
    162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gutigen View Post
    Thing is, why people care about MIR and Ubuntu if they don't use it? They could just focus on Wayland and let Canonical do their thing. I'll tell you why. It's because non-buntu developers (and companies backing them up - like Intel or Redhat) are scared of Canonical success, they feel like if Ubuntu becomes a mainstream thing on desktop and mobile, they will be left behind from this fast moving "Linux going mainstream" train.
    Could be that. Or it could be the unpleasant backstabbing they got from Canonical when Mir was announced.

  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    It shouldn't surprise nor overwhelm anyone, and I think Canonical understood from moment zero they weren't going to have many outsider contributors, and took that into acount, so Phoronix should quit being surprised by that fact.
    Phoronix isn't surprised at all. It is just way to write another headline grabbing story and get the rabid fanbase riled up unnecessarily leading to some weird persecution complex. It is just a solid revenue resource in terms of number of hits.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gutigen View Post
    Easy, Phoronix is a tabloid for tech savvy Linux users, which means that it works on same rules as tabloids and other bullshit media. What you see in his post here is "fueling hatred" for Ubuntu, cause atm among elitist Linux users hating Ubuntu is trendy.

    Thing is, why people care about MIR and Ubuntu if they don't use it? They could just focus on Wayland and let Canonical do their thing. I'll tell you why. It's because non-buntu developers (and companies backing them up - like Intel or Redhat) are scared of Canonical success, they feel like if Ubuntu becomes a mainstream thing on desktop and mobile, they will be left behind from this fast moving "Linux going mainstream" train.

    Hating Ubuntu is a thing, but hey, if you look at non-Linux media the only Linux you see is either Ubuntu or recently SteamOS. Mainstream media do not care about Gnome, Redhat, Wayland and other distros - Canonical and Valve are faces of Linux world in world media, deal with it or make better products (from marketing point of view, not technical).
    And here we can see another example of the Trademark Canonical Persecution Complex. See, I used to wonder why all Ubuntu-fans act like this, but after reading what kind of posts Marky-Mark McSpaceshuttle writes, it's really no wonder. Mark behaves like a spoiled brat - he makes these grand plans, he sees himself as a "visionary", a new messiah taking Linux to the next level - but when things don't go his way, he throws tantrums, blames everyone except his own actions. Everyone else is jealous of Canonical! Everyone else is an elitist who wants Linux to be hard! Sounds familiar? That's the kind of text McShuttles writes everytime one of his crazy schemes falls apart, and the loyal followers pick up their cues from the glorious leader, so... that explains that.

    Reality check: If you look at mainstream media, the only Linux you see is Android and ChromeOS. And recently, Sailfish, but that's only because the phone was just released and that brought some publicity to it. If you go to gamer news, then SteamOS - even that isn't still quite mainstream, even though it's fairly big in gamer circles apparently. You actually have to do quite a bit of digging before anyone even mentions Ubuntu. Even in techy news sites, at least ones that are not specifically aimed at linux users, whenever Ubuntu is mentioned, it almost always comes with an explanation of what Ubuntu is, because they do not assume that everyone knows Ubuntu - unlike they do with, say, Android.

    Of the desktop Linux distros, Ubuntu might be the most well known among laymen, but that just makes it a large fish in a very small pond. Desktop linux distros are not in mainstream news, because there are no corporate sponsors paying for the attention, there's no one paying for advertising - because that's pretty much how mainstream media works these days, it's 99% paid advertising by various commercial or political entities. Canonical doesn't have enough resources to truly bring Ubuntu to the mainstream. When I open up a TV, I get commercials of Microsoft products (teh new windowz, computers with teh new windowz, windowz phones) or Android phablets. Not Ubuntu.

    But I digress. Do you want to know why people are harsh on Canonical? It's not because of some conspiracy or jealousy. It's not Redhat and Intel thinking "oh, that Canonical is getting too big and succesful, we better thwart their attempts...!!!" Hell no. Redhat makes over a billion a year selling subscriptions to RHEL. They target an entirely different market than Canonical. Canonical is not even a blip on their radar. As for Intel? They could afford to buy Canonical ten times over. They don't care what Canonical does. Canonical is simply not in their league.

    What the reason actually is, is the way Canonical deliberately goes out of their way to isolate themselves from the rest of desktop Linux. Canonical is doing a whole lot of things to make Ubuntu incompatible from other Linux distros. Think of the things they've done in the past couple of years. They patch the hell out of packages, making so many downstream changes that you need special packages for Ubuntu, and then they have this ppa system which could be useful for many distros, it could be a nice way to distribute software, if Canonical would collaborate with others - but the ppa's only work on Ubuntu and its derivatives, because they only offer Ubuntu-patched packages that don't work on other distros. And now they made Mir, and that's going to fragment the desktop Linux into two pieces: Ubuntu, and everything else. They're making Ubuntu incompatible, instead of collaborating with others. And ultimately, that's going to be the downfall of Ubuntu and Canonical, because they're shunning the greatest asset of open source and Linux. The sharing of code and resources. And now they're doing even more microsoftian things: they're bullying derivative distros, attempting to restrict competition by underhanded ways.

    If this would only affect Ubuntu and Canonical, then yeah, there'd be no point to complain. But Ubuntu doesn't exist in a vacuum, and their actions affect others indirectly.

    And another reason is... even if I don't personally use Ubuntu, I still wouldn't like to see Ubuntu failing. Ubuntu is like the black sheep of the Linux family - sure, it does lots of shitty and hurtful things, but after all is said and done, it's still family, and still has a place in our hearts. We may hate the things a family member does, but that doesn't mean we hate the family member, and it doesn't mean we wouldn't be sad if they died.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Rural Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    1,030

    Default

    dee - for now, the voice of reason.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy_ View Post
    Developed and used exclusively by Canonical. In other words - nobody cares.
    Only one problem with your statement-- Ubuntu is the most widely used Linux distro. Therefore many people care.

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    And here we can see another example of the Trademark Canonical Persecution Complex. See, I used to wonder why all Ubuntu-fans act like this, but after reading what kind of posts Marky-Mark McSpaceshuttle writes, it's really no wonder. Mark behaves like a spoiled brat - he makes these grand plans, he sees himself as a "visionary", a new messiah taking Linux to the next level - but when things don't go his way, he throws tantrums, blames everyone except his own actions. Everyone else is jealous of Canonical! Everyone else is an elitist who wants Linux to be hard! Sounds familiar? That's the kind of text McShuttles writes everytime one of his crazy schemes falls apart, and the loyal followers pick up their cues from the glorious leader, so... that explains that.

    Reality check: If you look at mainstream media, the only Linux you see is Android and ChromeOS. And recently, Sailfish, but that's only because the phone was just released and that brought some publicity to it. If you go to gamer news, then SteamOS - even that isn't still quite mainstream, even though it's fairly big in gamer circles apparently. You actually have to do quite a bit of digging before anyone even mentions Ubuntu. Even in techy news sites, at least ones that are not specifically aimed at linux users, whenever Ubuntu is mentioned, it almost always comes with an explanation of what Ubuntu is, because they do not assume that everyone knows Ubuntu - unlike they do with, say, Android.

    Of the desktop Linux distros, Ubuntu might be the most well known among laymen, but that just makes it a large fish in a very small pond. Desktop linux distros are not in mainstream news, because there are no corporate sponsors paying for the attention, there's no one paying for advertising - because that's pretty much how mainstream media works these days, it's 99% paid advertising by various commercial or political entities. Canonical doesn't have enough resources to truly bring Ubuntu to the mainstream. When I open up a TV, I get commercials of Microsoft products (teh new windowz, computers with teh new windowz, windowz phones) or Android phablets. Not Ubuntu.

    But I digress. Do you want to know why people are harsh on Canonical? It's not because of some conspiracy or jealousy. It's not Redhat and Intel thinking "oh, that Canonical is getting too big and succesful, we better thwart their attempts...!!!" Hell no. Redhat makes over a billion a year selling subscriptions to RHEL. They target an entirely different market than Canonical. Canonical is not even a blip on their radar. As for Intel? They could afford to buy Canonical ten times over. They don't care what Canonical does. Canonical is simply not in their league.

    What the reason actually is, is the way Canonical deliberately goes out of their way to isolate themselves from the rest of desktop Linux. Canonical is doing a whole lot of things to make Ubuntu incompatible from other Linux distros. Think of the things they've done in the past couple of years. They patch the hell out of packages, making so many downstream changes that you need special packages for Ubuntu, and then they have this ppa system which could be useful for many distros, it could be a nice way to distribute software, if Canonical would collaborate with others - but the ppa's only work on Ubuntu and its derivatives, because they only offer Ubuntu-patched packages that don't work on other distros. And now they made Mir, and that's going to fragment the desktop Linux into two pieces: Ubuntu, and everything else. They're making Ubuntu incompatible, instead of collaborating with others. And ultimately, that's going to be the downfall of Ubuntu and Canonical, because they're shunning the greatest asset of open source and Linux. The sharing of code and resources. And now they're doing even more microsoftian things: they're bullying derivative distros, attempting to restrict competition by underhanded ways.

    If this would only affect Ubuntu and Canonical, then yeah, there'd be no point to complain. But Ubuntu doesn't exist in a vacuum, and their actions affect others indirectly.

    And another reason is... even if I don't personally use Ubuntu, I still wouldn't like to see Ubuntu failing. Ubuntu is like the black sheep of the Linux family - sure, it does lots of shitty and hurtful things, but after all is said and done, it's still family, and still has a place in our hearts. We may hate the things a family member does, but that doesn't mean we hate the family member, and it doesn't mean we wouldn't be sad if they died.
    What dee said (thanks, dee).

    The last thing that Ubuntu/Canonical did that made me go "Nice!" rather than "Oh, crap!" was Upstart. And that's a fair while back, now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •