Why Sony Is Using LLVM/Clang On The PlayStation 4

[DanLamb]

Clearly you are a high-dollar professional developer with decades of experience who provides knowledgeable, fact-based feedback based purely on experience and a deep understanding of the problems each tool solves and the problem they cause on large, shipping products. You should contact Sony's engineers and lay down your wisdom on them.

Actually, I do have decades of full time programming experience, I have launched startups, and solved lots of problems on large shipping products, and I earn good money.

I'm also making points that are backed with clear reasoning. You are making an ad hominem counter argument that solely targets my person and doesn't address any of the content of my points.

[zester]

llvm/clang is a fine choice for C++... the big question is why on earth would they stick with the atrocious Microsoft ecosystem C++ toolset?!?

- Many programmers really think that Visual Studio is the best, because they've never understood competing tool chains. When they try to use something else, it just seems like a broken version of Visual Studio to them.
- Microsoft Visual Studio requires Microsoft Windows. One major flaw of Windows is that the shell is terrible. You can install a port of bash, but it doesn't work as well as using a real *nix OS. *nix (including Mac OS) is much better for any command line centric development work.
- Try using an elegant command line build tool, like SBT (www.scala-sbt.org) or Gradle or Ruby Rake. Once you get proficient, you won't want to go back to using IDE-proprietary auto-generated build files like Visual Studio does.

And, honestly, use a nicer programming language like Haskell or Scala or Rust and you won't want to use C++.

It's apparent why we have so many different programming languages because I find Haskell, Scala and Rust programming style to be horrible.

I prefer C, C++ and Lua. Thank god for freedom of choice.

[DanLamb]

It's apparent why we have so many different programming languages because I find Haskell, Scala and Rust programming style to be horrible.

I prefer C, C++ and Lua. Thank god for freedom of choice.

Have you actually used any of those three (Haskell/Scala/Rust) for more than something super trivial?

There are many glaring design flaws/mistakes/omissions that usually make it hard to go back to C/C++ or Java/C#. It is rare to see a fluent Haskell/Scala/Rust/F# programmer who would voluntarily go back.

[smitty3268]

It is rare to see a fluent Haskell/Scala/Rust/F# programmer who would voluntarily go back.

That's because those programmers are insane. 99% of developers don't like programming that way - which is why they don't ever become fluent in those languages.

To each their own.

[zester]

That's because those programmers are insane. 99% of developers don't like programming that way - which is why they don't ever become fluent in those languages.

To each their own.

I second that, I can retain a lot of different languages, but those three just don't fit with the way my brain works.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

No FreeBSD love?

Not a single mention of FreeBSD being the OS on the PS4. It's a no brainer SONY [a contributor to LLVM/Clang] in choosing FreeBSD would be using LLVM/Clang.

[deanjo]

Not a single mention of FreeBSD being the OS on the PS4. It's a no brainer SONY [a contributor to LLVM/Clang] in choosing FreeBSD would be using LLVM/Clang.

Probably because it has never been officially confirmed that it is FreeBSD.

[septianix]

Probably because it has never been officially confirmed that it is FreeBSD.

There you go : http://www.scei.co.jp/ps4-license/

[DanLamb]

That's because those programmers are insane. 99% of developers don't like programming that way - which is why they don't ever become fluent in those languages.

To each their own.

I second that, I can retain a lot of different languages, but those three just don't fit with the way my brain works.

Most working programmers, typically using C++/assembly/Java/C# (like the old me), view something like Scala/Haskell as difficult (it is) with no tangible payoff. If their curiosity or peer group convinces them to invest effort and get passed the learning curve, they typically love it.

You guys just took a glance and decided it wasn't worth the effort and don't really understand what these tools are about.

Even celebrity programmer John Carmack, who is definitely a non-Academic type specializing in performance-oriented assembly/C programming, said at his QuakeCon speech a few years back that monads and Scala were too theoretical, and programming is less about theory and more about just banging on stuff until it works. Now, even he has changed his tune and tweets about FP ideas regularly and is diving into Haskell programming.

BTW, Scala really caters to the Java/C# crowd, while Haskell is generally more purist and less practical. Agda is even more of an extremely abstract/conceptual/experimental language that is currently not practical at all.

[JS987]

And, honestly, use a nicer programming language like Haskell or Scala or Rust and you won't want to use C++.

I found C++ to be best language because it is statically-typed language with Java-like syntax which can be compiled into native executables which means excellent performance and low memory usage.
It has some defects e.g. header files which are necessary because of backward compatibility with C libraries.
In ideal world, all C code would be rewritten into C++ like language with removed backward compatibility with C.
Haskell, Scala and Rust don't have e.g. Java-like syntax.