Running Benchmarks On Other New Linux Games

[Kivada]

Again, OS X and Windows advertisements are much more lucrative than Linux. That's the BIG difference. There's no shortage of enthusiast-oriented hardware companies looking to advertise on Windows/OSX sites since that's where the majority of consumers are where as such companies aren't interested yet in advertising directly on Linux sites except for server/workstation companies on enterprise-focused content; the only worthwhile ads here are the full-screen / large ads, etc due to their nature.

The ad dollars are there if you are capable of brining in the numbers of readers, which you have proven incapable of by doing everything possible to drive them away. Hell, SteamLUG can manage to get game devs on for an hour long audio interview and then hold a gaming event with one of those dev's games for their podcast several times a month and they do it for free, with no advertising. The dev often gives them a few serials for games as well to hand out to listeners.

Theres no reason you couldn't have been doing the same thing all these years, not just with game devs but with the devs of every piece of commercial software on Linux to help them get their name out there and sell more copies of their software. There seem to be no shortage of people that are willing to drop $50 on a piece of Linux software for no other reason then to support the platform.

You rarely ever mention commercial Linux software at all, the few rare exceptions outside of a handful of games that you seemed to be interested in personally where Lightworks, Nero and Corel AfterShot Pro. Yet you have never done a review of these products to show how they compare to their Windows and OS X versions as well as to the OSS equivalents.

So again, why do you think why think every Linux user that isn't one of your regular apologists think that this site is a bad joke and a blight on the OSS community? Say all you want about PTS, but PTS didn't bring you one single new reader did it?

[Kivada]

OTOH, I think I'd trust Michael's benchmarks over some of those other guys out there, especially ones who don't really understand how to bench hardware. There are also reviewers out there who are so biased that you can't even get through an article without vomiting. (But at least they're up front and admit they're fanboys of certain companies and practically doling out pure ad copy as "featured articles".)

E.g., AnandTech on both counts.

Reviews in aggregate give you a feel for what the hardware is actually capable of, yet Linux reviews are the most important as to show how well the hardware works on Linux compared to Windows.

[schmidtbag]

The ad dollars are there if you are capable of brining in the numbers of readers, which you have proven incapable of by doing everything possible to drive them away. Hell, SteamLUG can manage to get game devs on for an hour long audio interview and then hold a gaming event with one of those dev's games for their podcast several times a month and they do it for free, with no advertising. The dev often gives them a few serials for games as well to hand out to listeners.

You have a knack for pretending you know the answers to everything you have no proof of. First of all, you do not speak for everyone - I haven't noticed many people leaving these forums, in fact, I've noticed an increase in members. But even if you did speak for everyone, for some reason, you're still here. So that still voids your point. Also, I don't know how many times you need to be told, but this isn't a gaming website. You seem to be completely incapable of comprehending this website is not just about games or benchmarks. That being said, game devs aren't going to be handing out free keys to Michael because:
* He doesn't focus on gaming and isn't much of a gamer himself
* I don't think he's ever done a single game review (again, not his job)
* He's looking for games with automated benchmarks, preferably ones that don't require a license (a license will only slow down automation)

Theres no reason you couldn't have been doing the same thing all these years, not just with game devs but with the devs of every piece of commercial software on Linux to help them get their name out there and sell more copies of their software. There seem to be no shortage of people that are willing to drop $50 on a piece of Linux software for no other reason then to support the platform.

You rarely ever mention commercial Linux software at all, the few rare exceptions outside of a handful of games that you seemed to be interested in personally where Lightworks, Nero and Corel AfterShot Pro. Yet you have never done a review of these products to show how they compare to their Windows and OS X versions as well as to the OSS equivalents.

Every other week I see an article posted on this website about a closed-source 3rd party application, game or otherwise. Not sure what you're talking about. And again, reviewing IS NOT HIS JOB. Seriously, he's a REPORTER. Even his benchmarks aren't considered product reviews - what he's doing is reporting on the performance and features, but nothing more. I don't know why you find this so hard to comprehend.

So again, why do you think why think every Linux user that isn't one of your regular apologists think that this site is a bad joke and a blight on the OSS community? Say all you want about PTS, but PTS didn't bring you one single new reader did it?

Again, where are you getting your facts? You have got to be the most ego-centric person on this website. Your priorities and opinions aren't everyone's. In fact, the reasons I visit Phoronix are explicitly NOT for product reviews - I go to other websites for that. Considering how little you value Michael's opinion, why would you want him to do reviews anyway? You spread an unnecessary amount of exaggerated hate over something nothing important. No matter how hard you want to believe this website is about product reviews and closed-source product promotion, it isn't.

[curaga]

I think PTS already supports the GPU usage that is done by RadeonTOP. I need to check to see what else it supports, but at last check PTS already directly monitors the Radeon, Intel, and binary AMD/NVIDIA drivers with GPU usage through gpu.sensor Phodevi sensor that can be enabled via MONITOR=gpu.usage environment variable. Phoronix Test Suite 5.0 will push the game much further with monitoring.

The fence count is a different, and unreliable, measure.

a) it doesn't measure GPU usage, but something else entirely. It's only lightly correlated.
b) it's only available through debugfs

Radeontop reads the GPU activity register. This means it works on all drivers, without debugfs, and is measuring the right thing.

http://phorogit.com/index.php?p=phoronix-test-suite.git&b=bacda99a37a79a7530d8c686ea5a49b4235d3b51

[Kivada]

Also, I don't know how many times you need to be told, but this isn't a gaming website. You seem to be completely incapable of comprehending this website is not just about games or benchmarks. That being said, game devs aren't going to be handing out free keys to Michael because:
* He doesn't focus on gaming and isn't much of a gamer himself
* I don't think he's ever done a single game review (again, not his job)
* He's looking for games with automated benchmarks, preferably ones that don't require a license (a license will only slow down automation)

I only come here for 2 things, To see what is posted by the OSS GPU driver devs in these forums and to prove a point about why this site is terrible for everything else.

It's in the homepage tageline...



I've posted several times at great detail about the things he could have done to improve the site, yet he'd rather do what he's always done, copypasta with linkback sauce.

Facts? Like the fact that outside of the handful of you that post constantly there are exceedingly few new posters in the forum that have more then 10 posts before they just stop posting and likely stop reading?

Or the fact that if you do as I said and ask about Phoronix on ANY other Linux site you will get a resounding negative response?

[vsteel]

Michael, do you think you could work with Valve or Croteam to get a version of Serious Sam or a steam game that could be stand alone so that you could benchmark it without worrying about version or steam overhead not being consistent? They could set you up with a special version or let you have a developer copy or something. I know it wouldn't be perfect but it would give you something stable and more modern to try that you could put into your scripts. I know you couldn't release it but it would let you put up some graphs.

Thanks for the wonderful site and don't let the whiners and the "I want the world for free without any work on my part." get you down.

[curaga]

OTOH, I think I'd trust Michael's benchmarks over some of those other guys out there, especially ones who don't really understand how to bench hardware. There are also reviewers out there who are so biased that you can't even get through an article without vomiting. (But at least they're up front and admit they're fanboys of certain companies and practically doling out pure ad copy as "featured articles".)

E.g., AnandTech on both counts.

Tell me about it. SemiAccurate is otherwise a great read, but every time Thomas there does a benchmark I triple facepalm.

He can't reproduce any of his results. He only does single runs, with no measurements, and lots of noise. For a while he didn't even label his axes.


In contrast Michael is doing it right. Automated, reproducible, standard deviation taken into account.

[schmidtbag]

I only come here for 2 things, To see what is posted by the OSS GPU driver devs in these forums and to prove a point about why this site is terrible for everything else.

So, you subscribed for 3 years JUST to get driver dev info and to complain about this website? You don't need to subscribe to do the former, and you really must have nothing better to do for the latter.

It's in the homepage tageline...

Fair enough, I can admit that I inaccurately defined what this website claims to be. HOWEVER, in actuality, phoronix articles for YEARS have rarely been about reviews or gaming (experiences). That being said, the website description isn't exactly accurate. Sure there's plenty of articles about game engines and game releases, but not much other than game news. As I stated before, phoronix is mostly a news source. The forums may be more about reviews and gaming but I personally never visit them beyond news articles.

I've posted several times at great detail about the things he could have done to improve the site, yet he'd rather do what he's always done, copypasta with linkback sauce.

I recall more complaining than suggestions. I'm not exactly fond of him not linking sources, but as I've posted several times, the improvements you're looking for would stray too far from what this website REALLY has for contents. I guess it's more of a fault on Michael's part to say this site focuses on reviews and gaming when the website doesn't appeal to either of those. Anything considered a review here is more of an overview or in-depth notations on a milestone.

Facts? Like the fact that outside of the handful of you that post constantly there are exceedingly few new posters in the forum that have more then 10 posts before they just stop posting and likely stop reading?

Or the fact that if you do as I said and ask about Phoronix on ANY other Linux site you will get a resounding negative response?

Again, I don't visit the forums, so I can't say what the activity is like around there. Personally, if I'm going to get involved in a linux community, it's going to the the community of the distro I'm using. That being said, the community here has very little to offer me.

You still have yet to provide another linux news site that provides the same content (or more/better) than phoronix. You keep claiming there are other sites but I can't find any. Just from a quick google search, linuxtoday.com is more about distro and product releases. linuxinsider.com seems to be more about reviews and articles in column-style journalism. lxer.com is a content aggregator. linuxfoundation news is too corporate focused. How many do I really need to list? Phoronix has a niche, and the readers here who don't whine every day appeal to that niche. I'm not saying the other sites are bad, BTW, they just don't have the same focus or information.

[Kivada]

Theres no reason to not do so. Even crap websites do image quality comparisons, not just for games but also for their video acceleration hardware?

And what about all of the years where we where lucky to see one new game a year? at that point why didn't he expand the site into other venues? Why is there no test for any of the software on this list? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...#Audio.2FVideo

There are hundreds of pieces of non gaming software he could have tested that would have made the site worth it. Why? Because even the gaming sites on Windows test non gaming software to bring in readers.

Cast a wide net to be brought up in as many searches as possible. The bigger the audience the better the income.

There isn't another Linux review site because everyone else has a job.