Originally posted by Kivada
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One Million Dollars For A Shader-Based LGPLv3 GPU
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its a capitalist world...
if a license free not compete with technology and performance, will be bad...
even paying for licenses, they will gain...
linux is a case of success, because you just need a computer to improve it.
if build the hardware is required, it would be a disaster.
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Originally posted by tarceri View PostLearning with a project like this is about hardware design not OpenGL programming. You don't need a special card to learn how to write OpenGL code.
And yes, the supported OpenGL version matters as that gives you an idea of how advanced their hardware design is, so far all they've shown is that they will be making a GPU design that is no different from just copying a very old GPU that has expired patents.
There are already companies making updated i586 CPUs because the the patents have expired, theres no reason that you couldn't take the GPUs of the same era and make clones, which is all this projects seems like it's going to do.
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Originally posted by Kivada View PostWhich was my point, what will be learned from this that can't already be learned from GPU designs whose patents have expired? Because that is what this looks like, a very old GPU design being done on an FPGA.
And yes, the supported OpenGL version matters as that gives you an idea of how advanced their hardware design is, so far all they've shown is that they will be making a GPU design that is no different from just copying a very old GPU that has expired patents.
There are already companies making updated i586 CPUs because the the patents have expired, theres no reason that you couldn't take the GPUs of the same era and make clones, which is all this projects seems like it's going to do.
What are you talking about you cant just clone an old gpu you still need a copy of the design. Also patents stop you from using certain features until they expire, but copyright still exists so even if it were possible to just magically clone the gpu you still couldn't just make an exact copy
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Originally posted by Kivada View PostThere are already companies making updated i586 CPUs because the the patents have expired, theres no reason that you couldn't take the GPUs of the same era and make clones, which is all this projects seems like it's going to do.Test signature
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Originally posted by tarceri View PostFrancis I just wanted to say you should probably spend some time dumbing things down a little bit for example you need to explain the concepts a bit more thoroughly for people that are interested in the concept but don't understand how it all works.
Some things I recommend expanding on:
- What is an FPGA? and why would people be interested in it.
- What is Verilog?
- What is the difference between an ASIC and FPGA?
- Any other things that are basic to understanding what the project is about.
You campaign at the moment seems targeted only at those who already know what all these technologies are about and that is limiting your potential backers. In my opinion you need to add a bit more marketing to your campaign. I think you should add a whole new section "Why back this project?" here you really need to sell the idea to both education/developers/graphics enthusiasts but also to people interested in open source but are not technical there are many people out there that are not programmers but still very interested in supporting open source.
Finally I've added you campaign to Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/commen...u_kickstarter/
You should keep an eye on the comments it will give you a good idea on how to refine your campaign page to answer common questions people have.
Good luck
I'm also working on solutions for people who play with Raspberry-Pi or Arduino boards to see what is available for FPGA daughter cards (there are some). Being Day #1, I've been slammed with questions and comments, but I will try to get to them in the next few days.
A few things so far:
1) Thanks for the support to everyone and I understand the people who aren't on board. My biggest problem with doing this was that it's kind of niche for a product.
2) I did honestly try to research the licensing before we did the release and I chose LGPL based on a software engineer I am friends with. I liken the GPU to a linked library. I would like anyone be able to use it. want to link it with an ARM, go right ahead. want to do a complete open source SOC, go ahead. But... and this is my sticking point. If you modify it, you have to make the modifications available. If you leave it alone, you just need to provide the source. I know GPL is viral, but I thought LGPL would fit the bill. please correct me if I am wrong.
3) We didn't try to do hardware for a few reasons. I don't think we could have a one size fits all approach. The 2D part will fit in a small FPGA. The 3D part needs more. I think hackers might want a Cyclone V SOC or Xilinx Zynq to play with. I personally would love the time to take the Sparc T1/T2 and pair it with this and see if I could squeeze it into a Stratix V or Vertex 7, but they would cost 10K a piece.
Thanks for the support and I understand the non-suport (not sure of the best word) from some. I'll try my best to follow up w/ anything posted here, or message me via here or kickstarter. Whether we make it or not, this is certainly a learning experience.
Thanks,
Frank
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Originally posted by fbruno View PostThanks. I'm working on addressing these issues. I'm a hardware engineer in the thick of FPGA design daily, so I probably write too much like an engineer.
I'm also working on solutions for people who play with Raspberry-Pi or Arduino boards to see what is available for FPGA daughter cards (there are some). Being Day #1, I've been slammed with questions and comments, but I will try to get to them in the next few days.
A few things so far:
1) Thanks for the support to everyone and I understand the people who aren't on board. My biggest problem with doing this was that it's kind of niche for a product.
2) I did honestly try to research the licensing before we did the release and I chose LGPL based on a software engineer I am friends with. I liken the GPU to a linked library. I would like anyone be able to use it. want to link it with an ARM, go right ahead. want to do a complete open source SOC, go ahead. But... and this is my sticking point. If you modify it, you have to make the modifications available. If you leave it alone, you just need to provide the source. I know GPL is viral, but I thought LGPL would fit the bill. please correct me if I am wrong.
3) We didn't try to do hardware for a few reasons. I don't think we could have a one size fits all approach. The 2D part will fit in a small FPGA. The 3D part needs more. I think hackers might want a Cyclone V SOC or Xilinx Zynq to play with. I personally would love the time to take the Sparc T1/T2 and pair it with this and see if I could squeeze it into a Stratix V or Vertex 7, but they would cost 10K a piece.
Thanks for the support and I understand the non-suport (not sure of the best word) from some. I'll try my best to follow up w/ anything posted here, or message me via here or kickstarter. Whether we make it or not, this is certainly a learning experience.
Thanks,
Frank
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Originally posted by Kivada View PostWhich was my point, what will be learned from this that can't already be learned from GPU designs whose patents have expired?
I'm not going to contribute, but I do think it's an interesting idea in theory. It reminds me of my college days when i was playing around with Verilog a bit.
Edit: by the way, companies don't put Verilog code in their patent applications. They make them as generic as possible, like any good patent application, so that they can try to claim as much as possible while giving away as few details as possible. And they are small individual pieces to a piece of hardware, not anything even approaching a fully working implementation.Last edited by smitty3268; 10 October 2013, 01:21 AM.
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Originally posted by tarceri View PostWhat are you talking about you cant just clone an old gpu you still need a copy of the design. Also patents stop you from using certain features until they expire, but copyright still exists so even if it were possible to just magically clone the gpu you still couldn't just make an exact copy
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Originally posted by smitty3268 View PostWhy do you think this is about "learning" something? It's about getting the hardware design for a GPU, not learning. Just like adding GL4 support into Mesa won't teach us anything we don't already know from other drivers, but will simply provide an open source implementation for it.
This GPU, open as it may be has no potential market, especially when you se the limits of where they say they can take it's tech on their Kickstarter page. Even ARM GPUs have complete modern features unlike this project's high end goals that will only be 2001 era OpenGL1.4/DirectX8.1 features that are not even enough to run a composited desktop on anymore since those require OpenGL 2.*.
TL;DR
Opensource GPU using 2001 tech that nobody will buy or hire more devs to make better drivers for existing hardware that people are already buying?Last edited by Kivada; 11 October 2013, 05:19 AM.
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