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Thread: OpenSUSE Looks To Switch To Btrfs For Next Release

  1. #21
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    I think I'll wait until there's widespread adoption in the enterprise.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by JS987 View Post
    Proper testing needs automated tests created by testers running 24/7 on dedicated servers.
    For filesystems, automated tests already exists and are extensively used by developers involved. However that doesn't catch all the different issues that crop up when people actually start using it. This is why there is no magical period where one can declare it stable. It just matures better with time.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    For filesystems, automated tests already exists and are extensively used by developers involved. However that doesn't catch all the different issues that crop up when people actually start using it. This is why there is no magical period where one can declare it stable. It just matures better with time.
    Those tests are probably only artificial. Good tests should cover all use cases.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by JS987 View Post
    Those tests are probably only artificial. Good tests should cover all use cases.
    That is a naive claim. Are you a developer at all? It is impossible to automate all use cases when testing anything as complex as a filesystem.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS987 View Post
    Those tests are probably only artificial. Good tests should cover all use cases.
    ....You know whats better than synthetic (eg: automated) tests? PEOPLE. USING. IT. AND. SUBMITTING. FEEDBACK. -_-

    I swear to God the people on these boards are as deaf and blind as they come...

    --Happy BTRFS user for the last like 2years. 1 Failure that entire time, which was completely my fault.--

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Oliver View Post
    I'm fairly new to Linux but I've ended up on Opensuse. I'd very much like to support a default distro. Ubuntu is clearly beyond the pale: Unity, Upstart, Mir plus the spy ware business. So I'm interested in your critique. Do you think Opensuse are open to reason? Opensuse seem to cut a good balance between Stability and cutting edge.
    Suse and its community project OpenSuse have been caught in politics as well. There was a time when their parent company Novell was pushing Mono and made other deals with Microsoft as well; people got paranoid (probably for nothing). After Attachmate bought Novell (which owned Suse) , Novell lost control over Suse itself as Suse now governs itself since Attachmate completly seperated Suse from Novell. The Suse guys are doing a wonderful job. I consider Suse to be a full community player now.

    As the first posters in this thread said, OpenSuse is a fairly conservative distro (when it comes to underlying technology not package versions). The fact that they are switching to this filesystem has caught most of us by surprise.


    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    You don't add repositories manually most of the time. You go to http://software.opensuse.org and enter the package name to the search box, then press 1-Click Install and the repository gets added for you automatically. And when you do need to add them manually, the URL is found in the wiki, and the process of adding it is straight-forward.
    Yeah, that's what Pickle mentioned earlier. Believe it or not, the last few times I tried OpenSuse I (11.4, 12.3 , and the 13.4 3rd/4th milestone) I forgot to try the one click repo installer.



    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    Eh? No, you just add KDE:Release:410 or so, then press the "replace system packages" button in the package manager, and your KDE gets upgraded to the SC of your choice.
    Luke_Wolf mentioned this as well. I get it now, thanks. I was adding extra repositories...



    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    And how is that bad? You need to start somewhere. As for the proprietary drivers, not much you can do about it due to the constantly changing graphics stack components. Reinstalling isn't hard, too.
    I guess that's true but it's wierd that there isn't an ISO that offers snapshots of TumbleWeed's repositories every once in a while. I just didn't expect that. I guess either way you will have to download an ISO and then update anyways seeing that TumbleWeed is rolling release.



    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    No, you can just get it off build service packages. There's no reason to update milestones, because all the development is going towards the new version anyway.
    Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I guess one would just ignore the further milestones if that's the case.

    Now, I understand why OpenSuse's repos are split the way there are. Thanks, guys for the responses.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTown View Post
    I get that Yast is different (and that's not a bad thing) but installing common applications that are needed right away is not a friendly way to teach new users how to add Yast repositories.
    As mentioned by other in the thread, Suse has developped "1-click installs" which automate the whole "add the correct mix of repositories to get an extra package" procedure.
    They also have a nice search engine on their web site which can sort through all their alternate repositories hosted on their own build system. This search engine of course procudes "1-click installer" just pick the package you want to install and it takes care of all the rest (adding extra repositories and handling dependencies).
    So in fact Suse is become much more end-user friendly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CTown View Post
    The milestones releases works differently then most distros. They seem to contain their own repository and don't seem to update at all until the next milestone release. For instance, if one milestone comes out a week before a beta 2 version of some software comes out, you have to wait three weeks for the next milestone to come out in order to get it.
    It's a *milestone*. it's a frozen state which mimics the way stable version are also frozen.
    - if a package has a newer version, wait for the next release just like ANY version, not just milestones.
    - if a package has a bug/security fix, you should get it from the upgrades. Earlier milestones don't feature upgrades (Debian does the same, too). Stay on a stable release if you want security.
    - if you desparately need the latest version of a package, that's why the repositories from their build-system are availble. Either a new repositories, or use the 1-click feature (and the search engine)

    Also, I think that OpenSuse should come out with a true rolling release model to compete with the fact that Ubuntu is "always stable" at any point in its release now.
    There are users who aren't necessarily interested by having the latest possible version of everything in pure gentoo-style. Some just appreciate having stable periodic release, but would need a few more recent verison here and there. that's what tumbleweed is for. helping users get newer versions of core packages without needing to wait for the next release or rely on third party repositories. it's not for the ultra-bleeding edge. (specially it avoid the strange version dependencies hell that sometime cripple gentoo).


    Quote Originally Posted by Pickle View Post
    Seem to be conflicting statements. How can it be stable with expectation for minimal changes, but yet be under heavy development, which suggests many changes. Maybe they were better saying actively developed. Im skeptical right now to move from EXT4 to BTRS.
    "The heavy Development" isn't happening at the bits-on-disk-format level any more. At that point of a typical development cycle, most of the development is fine tuning and optimising the filesystem.
    In BTRFS' case, as you might have noticed by reading Phoronix, that mostly is going on in plug-ins and extra feature.

    That means, if you don't turn on every last bat-shit-crazy-insane options, just to squeeze the last drop of performance, you probably won't see the *heavy* development. BTRFS heavily relies on extensions, etc. If you want stability, just use the few mature feature, specially the one regarding data security, and avoid bleeding edge new optimisation features.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I think I'll wait until there's widespread adoption in the enterprise.
    ..but they're waiting on you to test it. Know your role, peasant!

    I liked Tumbleweed for the most part, and if I liked KDE enough, I may have switched to it at some point. My biggest complaint was the speed of package management. It felt even slower than apt, (and I've found apt painfully slow for a while since you do a lot of package management with Debian sid and my patience level is terrible). However, I was using a 5400RPM disk for suse, so it wasn't a fair comparison.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanL View Post
    ..but they're waiting on you to test it. Know your role, peasant!

    I liked Tumbleweed for the most part, and if I liked KDE enough, I may have switched to it at some point. My biggest complaint was the speed of package management. It felt even slower than apt, (and I've found apt painfully slow for a while since you do a lot of package management with Debian sid and my patience level is terrible). However, I was using a 5400RPM disk for suse, so it wasn't a fair comparison.
    Package management speed of: YaST, zypper, or packagekit? If YaST you should try it again as they removed all the scripts that made it a longer than necessary process.

  10. #30
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    Also Larabel appears to have missed a paragraph (ftfs):
    Of some special interest for this release is btrfs. A discussion has been going on about making this future-oriented file system the default on the next openSUSE. That won’t be but btrfs is still a prominent option during installation so any relevant testing and bugfixing will benefit many openSUSE 13.1 users. And, more importantly, we aim for having it default in the future.
    (emphasis mine)
    So that means they're looking at 13.2 having it by default not 13.1

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