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Thread: Java JDK 8 Developer Preview Released

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandain View Post
    Here is a Swing based Hello World then. I still don't see nearly the RAM usage that you claim.
    demo/jfc/SwingSet2/SwingSet2.jar from jdk-7u40-linux-x64-demos.tar.gz is using 90 MB after startup and grows to 110 MB white testing according to "top"
    132 MB RES - 22 MB SHR = 110 MB of private memory

  2. #22
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    After having tested java8 developer preview, I can say that I am a bit impressed with it.

    Great work!

    I mostly look forward to the HSA changes. There is a small version of it in java8 but the complete implementation will be in java9.

  3. #23
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    The Java 8 previews have been around in some naming or another since at least September 2011: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20111.../download.html

  4. #24
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    Regarding C# comments:

    one of the c# niceties I'd like to see are those async constructs
    Scala >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C#/Java.

    Scala definitely has special async constructs. More importantly, Scala fixes so many major flaws with C/C#/Java. Look at basic "if"/"for", array syntax, generics, type inference, basic variable/function syntax, and properties. C# has all those things, and C++/Java have most, but Scala does all of them much, much better.

    Scala runs on the Java VM. Java 8 has platform benefits and library benefits that benefit apps written in alternate languages like Scala/Clojure/Groovy/Kotlin.

    In the Java world, the Java language is the simple option that has more stability, backward compatibility. Scala is the more elegant language with the fancier feature set, but doesn't give you the backwards compatibility or stability of Java.

    For Android, you can use Scala, since it is JDK 6 compatible, but it's not that easy, so often if you're doing something simple, it isn't worth the effort. Secondly, lots of Android is written in C++. Thirdly, the Android Dalvik runtime is a completely different implementation than the Oracle desktop runtime.

    Android is stuck at JDK 6, which is bad. Newer versions of Scala will have to move forward and target JDK 7/8, and Android will have to either update or switch to a non-Java option.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLamb View Post
    Regarding C# comments:



    Scala >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C#/Java.

    Scala definitely has special async constructs. More importantly, Scala fixes so many major flaws with C/C#/Java. Look at basic "if"/"for", array syntax, generics, type inference, basic variable/function syntax, and properties. C# has all those things, and C++/Java have most, but Scala does all of them much, much better.

    Scala runs on the Java VM. Java 8 has platform benefits and library benefits that benefit apps written in alternate languages like Scala/Clojure/Groovy/Kotlin.

    In the Java world, the Java language is the simple option that has more stability, backward compatibility. Scala is the more elegant language with the fancier feature set, but doesn't give you the backwards compatibility or stability of Java.

    For Android, you can use Scala, since it is JDK 6 compatible, but it's not that easy, so often if you're doing something simple, it isn't worth the effort. Secondly, lots of Android is written in C++. Thirdly, the Android Dalvik runtime is a completely different implementation than the Oracle desktop runtime.

    Android is stuck at JDK 6, which is bad. Newer versions of Scala will have to move forward and target JDK 7/8, and Android will have to either update or switch to a non-Java option.
    I'm curious if you're aware of LINQ, and if so your thoughts on that in combination with C# in comparison with Scala.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
    I'm curious if you're aware of LINQ, and if so your thoughts on that in combination with C# in comparison with Scala.
    From what I've used LINQ is a custom syntax inside of C# that provides:

    - Functional collections library. You can use this with normal C# syntax or the LINQ syntax. They changed the normal functional names to use SQL-like names. map->select, fold->aggregate, filter->where
    - Database and XML integration. Also ORM functionality although I'm not sure if that is labeled LINQ or Entity Framework. The database stuff is Microsoft SQL Server only, but lets you write LINQ expressions that get generally efficient translations into database calls, and provide type safety and refactoring as opposed to completely string based SQL which can't be type checked or refactored with tools.

    For functional collections, Scala clearly has had that stuff since the very beginning.

    I like that Scala's core language is good enough that it doesn't need to bolt on an extra special case language syntax.

    For SQL database integration, I'm __really__ skeptical about ORM. I've used Hibernate and NHibernate quite a bit, and while they look great and fancy at first, in hindsight they are more trouble than they are worth. I know the Rails guys are happier with ActiveRecord (which is the Rails ORM solution).

    LINQ looks like a big step up over the old way of using text SQL strings all over your code in that you get compilation checks and type safety. The official Scala (Typesafe) parallel is called "slick" (http://slick.typesafe.com/). Honestly, I have never used either, so I really don't know how good they are at this. (I have used basic LINQ functional collections, just not the database integration). I'd like to try both, but the only SQL heavy projects I have done in the past several years were locked into older technology stacks.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
    I'm curious if you're aware of LINQ, and if so your thoughts on that in combination with C# in comparison with Scala.
    Also, I'd like to add that Microsoft has C# as the easier, practical, low learning curve language and F# is the sophisticated language for people who can take the time to learn it. It's very similar to Java and Scala on the JVM. I don't think anyone who has learned Scala or F# would consider Java or C# in the same ballpark of sophisticated language design. But they are much easier to learn.

    Learning Scala one feature at a time is really easy and amazing, but if you dive into advanced production Scala code with the fancier libraries, it is a real wall of complexity. There is a pay off, but there is a learning curve.

    Personally, I think the big difference between .NET vs JVM is not the languages, it's the ecosystem. JVM has a much more decentralized open source community driven nature, while .NET is much more top down Microsoft centric. I've worked for lots of companies who are using and loving Office, SharePoint, SQL Server, and a full MS stack, and .NET is the best programming platform to perform various integration tasks.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLamb View Post
    Also, I'd like to add that Microsoft has C# as the easier
    C# doesn't even have same support on Linux as on Windows

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