Systemd-Logind Device Management For Wayland

[dvdhrm]

Anyways, as long as this is optional I couldn't care less. If this will become a hard dependency Wayland will have lost for me, simple as that.

It will always support VTs as fallback.

[Guest]

So this is a way to cripple the BSDs by proxy, by having essential future frameworks e.g. Wayland depend on SystemD which is Linux only?
Sounds pretty bleak.

Sounds pretty smart and sane. BSD doesn't contribute anything useful for Linux and I see no reason why Linux community should give them a thing. It's BSD problem it's years behind Linux, but nobody cares about their problems here. They can always try to write their own framework, but this would stop entire BSD development due to lack of manpower.

[dee.]

So this is a way to cripple the BSDs by proxy, by having essential future frameworks e.g. Wayland depend on SystemD which is Linux only?
Sounds pretty bleak.

Well, the Wayland devs have been saying constantly that there will be no hard dependency on systemd in Wayland. I don't really see them going back on that at this point. Wouldn't make any sense, as Wayland is meant to run on diverse environments and platforms...

Optional support is different than mandatory hard dependency.

[Delgarde]

I wonder if there's a reason of putting all this extra stuff into SystemD.
I mean, if they're also looking for BSD compatibility then this is the wrong way to go about it.

They're not putting it into systemd, as such - they're putting it into logind. Which is currently part of the systemd source tree, but can be used in isolation - hence recent discussions about it being used in Ubuntu.

As to what it has to do with systemd - well, isn't that what systemd is for? It's not just a classic dumb init daemon, afterall - it's a system process manager, responsible for anything that needs to be started or shut down, be that an SSH or web server, or a user login service. It already has the idea of tracking sessions by way of grouping processes in such a way that they can be shut down cleanly - it's not that much of a stretch for it to take responsibility of tracking which devices are associated with a session.

So this is a way to cripple the BSDs by proxy, by having essential future frameworks e.g. Wayland depend on SystemD which is Linux only?
Sounds pretty bleak.

Hardly. They're not trying to cripple the BSDs - they just don't care. Nobody does, really - the BSDs get marginalised because they don't contribute anything, not because people want to cripple them. Regardless of how you feel about things like systemd and Wayland and all the other things - the work is almost exclusively being done by Linux-based developers. If BSD want to be relevant, they need to change that, need to get involved in driving things instead of making a half-hearted attempted to port things after the Linux guys have done all the work.

[intellivision]

BSD doesn't contribute anything useful for Linux

Citation needed, post your proof for your claim now.

[Vim_User]

It will always support VTs as fallback.

Thanks for the clarification.

Sounds pretty smart and sane. BSD doesn't contribute anything useful for Linux and I see no reason why Linux community should give them a thing. It's BSD problem it's years behind Linux, but nobody cares about their problems here. They can always try to write their own framework, but this would stop entire BSD development due to lack of manpower.

Last time I looked neither Xorg nor Wayland where Linux only, so can you please post a link to a statement from the developers that this has changed?

[Teho]

...and I've heard it described as they want it to be "the userspace kernel"....

Where? I found only one (in the comments) case where anyone has ever said that before and he had nothing to do with the systemd project. What is that supposed to even mean?

It will always support VTs as fallback.

Isn't that up to every Wayland compositor to decide? For example as Gnome already depends on logind APIs such fallback might no serve much purpose (or would it?).

Which is currently part of the systemd source tree, but can be used in isolation - hence recent discussions about it being used in Ubuntu.

It will be used in Ubuntu 13.10 by default (pre-systemd 205 version). After systemd 205 separating systemd-logind from systemd has become a lot harder because it depends on systemd managing the cgroup hierarchy (I guess this could be done by other daemon that doesn't exist yet).

Citation needed, post your proof for your claim now.

I'm curious of the opposite, what have they contributed in the recent years, especially on the non-server side of things.

[smitty3268]

So this is a way to cripple the BSDs by proxy, by having essential future frameworks e.g. Wayland depend on SystemD which is Linux only?
Sounds pretty bleak.

That implies any of these devs care one way or another about BSD, which is false.

[Vim_User]

That implies any of these devs care one way or another about BSD, which is false.

So you have a link to a developers comment about that?

[smitty3268]

So you have a link to a developers comment about that?

If a developer actually commented on BSD, that would be a sort of proof that they did care, wouldn't it? They only care about the platform they are actually working on. Which is linux.

Wayland was initially designed for linux only, because that's what the developer who ran it was using. Eventually some BSD devs came along and ported it to run on BSD. The same thing will either happen with Systemd, or it won't. That's up to the BSD devs to decide. And as mentioned, Wayland obviously won't have a hard dependency on it - they are just making it all optional right now.