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  • #81
    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    I assume you didn't prior discussions. In Wayland, everyone has the right. In Mir, ONLY Canonical has the exclusive right to create a proprietary fork. That is the point. Also, FSF is a non-profit foundation that has the legal requirement mandated within the contract you sign with them, not to ever create proprietary forks. So the situation is nowhere near the same.
    do we need a Blog on this or what?

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    • #82
      Originally posted by Honton View Post
      There is a difference between decline and falling like a rock. Does code requires same level of patchng through out its life time? No. There will allways be a surge during porting and rewrites. Getting more mature explains why Gnome and KDE does have some level of commit decline. Still it doesn't explain why KDE is taking such a huge decline, not only from commits, but also from the number of contributors. And that is a huuuge problem for KDE. So much code and much less people to fix it. I think it is fair to assume that contributors lost the morale because of KDE's complexity. Making one change to fixing a bug, exposes other bugs.
      KDE's problem was that it was never the default desktop of the big Linux vendors: Red Hat, Ubuntu, Debian all had Gnome as default. As you said:

      Originally posted by Honton
      By popular do you mean "added as default" to the most popular distrobution? DEs don't compete on common ground. It is all about the distributions.
      Also when you talk about project size is it an accurate comparison of just the desktop components, or are you comparing GNOME+some_apps to KDE+some_apps? Both projects made the mistake of writing too many desktop-specific apps instead of focusing on providing a basic app layer for other projects to use. But including random projects that aren't part of a desktop (eg. KDevelop) to inflate the LoC count is going to produce a flawed analysis.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by chrisb View Post
        Also when you talk about project size is it an accurate comparison of just the desktop components, or are you comparing GNOME+some_apps to KDE+some_apps? Both projects made the mistake of writing too many desktop-specific apps instead of focusing on providing a basic app layer for other projects to use. But including random projects that aren't part of a desktop (eg. KDevelop) to inflate the LoC count is going to produce a flawed analysis.
        Looking at Ohloh sources, it's tracking all of the KDE subprojects (including Ark, Apper, etc.). Same with GNOME (including GStreamer, NetworkManager-Gnome, etc.). So it's not representative of the basic components at all. Now admittedly KDELibs and Plasma Workspaces also has decreased activity, but do remember that Ohloh only tracks master branches, and much of the actual development towards KDE Frameworks 5 is happening in development branches.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by Honton View Post
          THe graph covers what KDE and Gnome define as the desktop.
          That's not true - if the graph covers everything that comes under the "KDE" umbrella - then it also covers many projects that use KDE technologies but aren't intended to be part of a standard user desktop (like KDevelop, every KDE Science app, etc).

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          • #85
            Originally posted by Honton View Post
            KDE's Ohloh account is maintained by KDE people. If you disgree with KDE what KDE is, then file a bug. No matter how you put it, KDE is dying. Want more data? Go look at KDE's commit digest today. Then go back a year or two. Same trend. KDE is dying.
            As I have said before, the commit digest does not show a decline in commits, but if you would like to show otherwise, then please be my guest, but I'm not holding my breath.

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            • #86
              Originally posted by Honton View Post
              KDE's Ohloh account is maintained by KDE people. If you disgree with KDE what KDE is, then file a bug.
              This has nothing to do with me disagreeing with KDE people, since KDE people do not say that KDE is only a user desktop. It is a fact: the whole KDE project is more than just a user desktop. In fact, KDE hosts standalone applications that are only there because they use kdelibs.

              The goal of the community is to provide basic desktop functions and applications for daily needs as well as tools and documentation for developers to write stand-alone applications for the system. In this regard, the KDE project serves as an umbrella project for many standalone applications and smaller projects that are based on KDE technology.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE

              There might be some truth to the suggestion that KDE is too big, and there was never a good reason for making many of the applications (eg. a whole IDE) desktop specific or under the KDE umbrella. Nevertheless, it is where it is, and at this stage counting every repository in KDE as one big project is like counting every repository in Github as one big project. If you count all Gnome projects you will have the same problem - eg. Gnucash, Alleyoop etc. are not part of a standard user desktop. Note that there is another potential problem: infrastructure is included in the source tree, so it's not just source, it's also every web site etc. If you really want to do a valid source code comparison for a standard user desktop, then compare what gets installed by gnome-desktop versus kde-desktop. Or compare similar packages, like Kdevelop vs Anjuta. You can't seriously measure LoC without considering functionality. And don't forget: "LOC measure is a terrible way to measure software size, except that all the other ways to measure size are worse."

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              • #87
                Originally posted by Honton View Post
                Are you ready to make a bet?
                I don't gamble, I just deal with facts.

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                • #88
                  Ohloh... accuracy?



                  OMG Debian is dying, and Fedora is already dead!!
                  Last edited by chrisb; 24 August 2013, 06:36 AM. Reason: ohloh link

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Honton View Post
                    Too bad you haven't learnt to evaluate sources.
                    Oh the irony!

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by nll_a
                      So it all comes down to these guys thinking that it's best if anyone (including Apple, Microsoft, Google, The Grinch, and Satan) can make their code proprietary rather than the absolutely remote possibility that an open source company (whose only relevance relies on the fact they make open source products) turns that code into proprietary a thousand years from now.

                      Does this seem reasonable and unbiased? Yeah, I don't think so either.
                      Did you expect unbiased analysis from Canonical's competitor? :P

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