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Thread: Fedora 20 Goes For No Default Sendmail, Syslog

  1. #1
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    Default Fedora 20 Goes For No Default Sendmail, Syslog

    Phoronix: Fedora 20 Goes For No Default Sendmail, Syslog

    There was a Fedora Engineering and Steering Committee meeting yesterday where more features of Fedora 20 were approved...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQzNzQ

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    This will also make it a Little faster will it not?

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    Systemd journal is crap. Storing logs in binary format means breaking UNIX principles and making sysadmin's job harder. RedHat used to have a clue but it seems they've completely lost touch with reality by now. Much like Canonical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy_ View Post
    Systemd journal is crap. Storing logs in binary format means breaking UNIX principles and making sysadmin's job harder. RedHat used to have a clue but it seems they've completely lost touch with reality by now. Much like Canonical.
    "Breaking unix principles" Sorry but...not really. Also if you hate the systemd journal so much there is literally nothing stopping you from installing syslog and having journald forward messages to syslog. You actually come out BETTER because the Journal takes more detailed logs and syslog will GET those more detailed logs, therefore increasing the effectiveness OF the syslog logs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Besides doing init The Right Way(TM), Systemd exposes all the cool feature added to Linux over last couple years. Systemd might very well be the single most value-adding package dropped into RHEL7.

    Oh and do you know why machine code and file system layouts are not human readable? Because it is unsafe, hard to sort, hard to compress, and inefficient. Just like other things that need to be safe, sortable, compressable, and efficient you need to go binary.
    jounalctl will still dump data to text stream when you invoke it, and it brings guarantees that a traditional init and logger just can't bring, like early boot logging. following child process even after double forking, and making it easy to dump the messages of the entire cgroup should something go wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tron_ston View Post
    The Unix way is obsolete
    How exacly are any of the following guiding rules of unix obsolete?

    Rule of Modularity: Write simple parts connected by clean interfaces.

    Rule of Clarity: Clarity is better than cleverness.

    Rule of Composition: Design programs to be connected to other programs.

    Rule of Separation: Separate policy from mechanism; separate interfaces from engines.

    Rule of Simplicity: Design for simplicity; add complexity only where you must.

    Rule of Parsimony: Write a big program only when it is clear by demonstration that nothing else will do.

    Rule of Transparency: Design for visibility to make inspection and debugging easier.

    Rule of Robustness: Robustness is the child of transparency and simplicity.

    Rule of Representation: Fold knowledge into data so program logic can be stupid and robust.

    Rule of Least Surprise: In interface design, always do the least surprising thing.

    Rule of Silence: When a program has nothing surprising to say, it should say nothing.

    Rule of Repair: When you must fail, fail noisily and as soon as possible.

    Rule of Economy: Programmer time is expensive; conserve it in preference to machine time.

    Rule of Generation: Avoid hand-hacking; write programs to write programs when you can.

    Rule of Optimization: Prototype before polishing. Get it working before you optimize it.

    Rule of Diversity: Distrust all claims for “one true way”.

    Rule of Extensibility: Design for the future, because it will be here sooner than you think.


    Some of the way Unix tried to implement these are obsolete, but it seems as sensible as ever to stick to them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Faster boot.
    Not really, syslog doesn't really take any time to boot. Systemd vs. system V init is much faster but you aren't going to notice a single extra log deamon being started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy_ View Post
    Systemd journal is crap. Storing logs in binary format means breaking UNIX principles and making sysadmin's job harder. RedHat used to have a clue but it seems they've completely lost touch with reality by now. Much like Canonical.
    how dare they break unix principals, I say we should all go back to having to manually communicate with the CPU by switches on the computer and programming in FORTRAN because we're just ruining years of computer tradition!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tron_ston View Post
    The Unix way is obsolete. It's what holds Linux back and it's the reason why UNIX and BSD are dying. To continue to succeed in the future, Linux must get rid of the vestiges of UNIX.

    Following the UNIX principle made the early development of Linux manageable with such a small number of developers. But now there are many developers and Linux is being used seriously.
    This has got to be one of the most retarded things I've ever heard anyone say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peppercats View Post
    how dare they break unix principals, I say we should all go back to having to manually communicate with the CPU by switches on the computer and programming in FORTRAN because we're just ruining years of computer tradition!
    If the only thing you have is sarcasm instead of facts, then go home.

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