Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: Sabayon 13.08 Brings Systemd By Default, UEFI Fixes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    14,529

    Default Sabayon 13.08 Brings Systemd By Default, UEFI Fixes

    Phoronix: Sabayon 13.08 Brings Systemd By Default, UEFI Fixes

    The Gentoo-based Sabayon Linux distribution is yet another open-source operating system doing an update in the past few days after openSUSE, Mageia, Elementary, and even OpenIndiana...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQzMzk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vilnius, Lithuania
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    That's pretty interesting, nice to see some public support for systemd, even if it's not from upstream Gentoo. I still use only systemd in the actual Gentoo, but the reaction to that when I mention this fact on their IRC and such can be unpleasant at times...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    That's pretty interesting, nice to see some public support for systemd, even if it's not from upstream Gentoo. I still use only systemd in the actual Gentoo, but the reaction to that when I mention this fact on their IRC and such can be unpleasant at times...
    You will probably never receive a positive reaction to using systemd on Gentoo. Gentoo forked udev for a reason. If they actually wanted to use systemd they wouldn't have done so.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vilnius, Lithuania
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Well, to be honest, "they" is not Gentoo as a whole, but rather some of the Gentoo developers. There are people who package systemd and the unit files for the programs in Gentoo, too. They're just keeping low and quiet

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    Well, to be honest, "they" is not Gentoo as a whole, but rather some of the Gentoo developers. There are people who package systemd and the unit files for the programs in Gentoo, too. They're just keeping low and quiet
    Well you did go into their IRC room, you'll never get an accurate representation of most things by doing that. Most users don't/won't use IRC. I abandoned it awhile ago because the only people who seem to join those rooms are trolls or people who believe if you don't do it their way you're doing it wrong.

    Gentoo is about choice and building the system the way you want. The developers are probably going to stay clear of systemd because they developed openrc. And since the systemd developers merged udev into it, the Gentoo devs probably felt it was a move to make systemd the only init system people can move forward with. I also don't think they liked where udev was going, but that is something else.

    I remember hearing a backlash from Arch users when they made the switch. They did it pretty quick and I don't believe that all the packages had systemd support either.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vilnius, Lithuania
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by migizi View Post
    Well you did go into their IRC room, you'll never get an accurate representation of most things by doing that. Most users don't/won't use IRC. I abandoned it awhile ago because the only people who seem to join those rooms are trolls or people who believe if you don't do it their way you're doing it wrong.
    The Gentoo IRC room is one of the liveliest places around, so I don't think you're right about that. Although it does seem that it's less biased on their forums. Also, speaking of bias against systemd, I've seen one of the Sunrise maintainers reject an ebuild due to it not including an OpenRC script, and put it very aggressively, without any justification (the submitter did end up writing an OpenRC script for the program to get it accepted, but if I was the submitter, I would definitely have objected).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    The Gentoo IRC room is one of the liveliest places around, so I don't think you're right about that. Although it does seem that it's less biased on their forums. Also, speaking of bias against systemd, I've seen one of the Sunrise maintainers reject an ebuild due to it not including an OpenRC script, and put it very aggressively, without any justification (the submitter did end up writing an OpenRC script for the program to get it accepted, but if I was the submitter, I would definitely have objected).
    It's a valid point though. The fact is that people like me will -never- use systemd. And I can't wait for a stable replacement for udev. Hell, I'm stuck on an ancient version of udev because it's still the most stable. It's time for something better.

    As far as plugnplay, ease of use, (not really driver availability though) I still consider windows 2000/XP to be the very best. Linux has a long way to go. There is no existing system available on linux as easy to use. And I'm talking at least 13 year old technology that Linux isnt anywhere near catching up to. Device management should be handled entirely in the kernel. Userspace will never be adequate.
    Last edited by duby229; 08-12-2013 at 07:16 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    55

    Default

    In case you're wondering why systemd is such a hot topic in Gentoo, besides systemd itself, it's because the developers packaged a file called functions.sh with the OpenRC ebuild. By removing OpenRC from your system, you're removing this file, and it'll break a lot of things on your system. Because of this, not a whole lot of developers are willing to provide support for removing OpenRC in favor of systemd, however, someone is working on it.

    https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vilnius, Lithuania
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    It's a valid point though. The fact is that people like me will -never- use systemd. And I can't wait for a stable replacement for udev. Hell, I'm stuck on an ancient version of udev because it's still the most stable. It's time for something better.
    I have nothing against OpenRC, in fact it was probably the best init system at the time. It's just that systemd is better now. I can understand the Gentoo developers wanting to keep OpenRC around, because they need it for Gentoo/FreeBSD (since systemd heavily relies on the Linux kernel capabilities and is LGPL, thus almost certainly will never run on BSDs), but one would expect them to act maturely and give both init systems the same amount of respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vax456 View Post
    In case you're wondering why systemd is such a hot topic in Gentoo, besides systemd itself, it's because the developers packaged a file called functions.sh with the OpenRC ebuild. By removing OpenRC from your system, you're removing this file, and it'll break a lot of things on your system. Because of this, not a whole lot of developers are willing to provide support for removing OpenRC in favor of systemd, however, someone is working on it.

    https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219
    There isn't much of a problem with running systemd and keeping OpenRC files around for compatibility purposes. It's just a bit of unnecessary clutter, but it's fine. To me it seems that the biased viewpoint is mostly due to NIH...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    360

    Default

    systemd does not deserve any respect… It’s very complex (supposedly to make things work automagically, but guess what… it does _not_ work automagically), complicated to use (writing unit files for everything is not my idea of fun), and broken (restart crashing daemons every second? check! Stall startup or shutdown indefinitely? check! Make it impossible for end-users to access their core dumps? check!); it does not solve any problem (as far as end-users are concerned at least), and it changes behaviour at each release, and changes system settings that it shouldn’t.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •