Amazon Has The Best Low-Cost Keyboard In A While

[GreatEmerald]

Uh what, people actually do that? Why not just get a localized keyboard?

There theoretically is the Ą?ERTY layout here in Lithuania. In practise, finding a keyboard like that is just as difficult as finding a keyboard without a numpad. And for a good reason, too. You need those English symbols. I need them right now. The Internet largely speaks English.

Well if you have to constantly type in two languages with very different alphabets, I think it's better to just get two keyboards...

That's not true in the slightest. It's a bit inconvenient that you need to press Alt + Shift (or whatever else you have configured) to switch keyboard layouts, but that far, far beats using an entirely different keyboard. My desk doesn't even have enough space to put another keyboard.

[bnolsen]

I played Larn and Nethack in the early 90s, don't know if you consider that "fairly new"... and yes, they were played with vi keys, especially since the VT-100 terminals we used didn't have any numpads...

Still, apart from nostalgia or baby duck syndrome, there's really no point in using the vi keys in modern roguelikes, the numpad is much more convenient and easy to use, especially for games that have lots of keybindings and you want to have the vi keys available for command keys.

hehe, you started the one upsmanship with an incorrect statement. I still prefer vi type keybindings for playing roguelikes although its been years since I've played one.

My current keyboard is several years old, it appears I've never touched the number pad. I dont' do data entry though, mostly just scientific programming with mostly variables and a few numerics mixed in which makes me stay "at home". And yes I'm a heavy vi user so I naturally use just a basic subset of a keyboard anyways.

So for internationalization, what do people do with laptop keyboards which tend to dump the keypad anyways? I notice asian language entry doesn't use the keypad and I haven't seen anyone operate a keyboard with cyrillic or other languages that may require a smallish superset of a 101 or so key keyboard.

[Kivada]

Well yes, the numpad iis also very useful for those who are not native English speakers and have accented symbols. They usually replace the number row, so you can enter numbers with the numpad, and accented characters with the number row. Though it's also not an ideal solution, because if you, say, need to write an exclamation mark, you have to switch to the US layout again (or use Alt Gr + Shift + 1). You could also just use the COMPOSE key for that, but it requires quite a few key presses.

I've always liked the way Macs handles this, it's far more natural to me http://www.forlang.wsu.edu/help/keyboards2.asp

[Kivada]

hehe, you started the one upsmanship with an incorrect statement. I still prefer vi type keybindings for playing roguelikes although its been years since I've played one.

So grab Dungeons Of Dredmor, it's worth it, theres tons of mods for it and it's fully native. The expansion packs are worth it as well.

http://www.gaslampgames.com/

http://www.desura.com/games/dungeons-of-dredmor

http://steamcommunity.com/app/98800

[GreatEmerald]

So for internationalization, what do people do with laptop keyboards which tend to dump the keypad anyways? I notice asian language entry doesn't use the keypad and I haven't seen anyone operate a keyboard with cyrillic or other languages that may require a smallish superset of a 101 or so key keyboard.

Use Alt+Shift even more often, that's what.

I've always liked the way Macs handles this, it's far more natural to me http://www.forlang.wsu.edu/help/keyboards2.asp

...yeah, that's essentially the COMPOSE key.

[dee.]

There theoretically is the Ą?ERTY layout here in Lithuania. In practise, finding a keyboard like that is just as difficult as finding a keyboard without a numpad. And for a good reason, too. You need those English symbols. I need them right now. The Internet largely speaks English.

Well that's just stupid, whoever designed the ...uh... Ą?ERTY layout did a shoddy job. I'm typing this on a Finnish/Swedish keyboard, it basically just has 3 extra keys - ?, ?, ? - and all the keys in the "standard" US layout are still available, some keys are combined in one key (like, you get the <, > and | symbols all from the same key, , and ; are in the same key because ? is where ; normally is, and so on), it means I can type in Finnish, Swedish or English, just have to use AltGr a bit more often than with a US layout keyboard.

But, maybe all localized keyboards aren't designed as smartly... then I guess it makes sense not to use one.

That's not true in the slightest. It's a bit inconvenient that you need to press Alt + Shift (or whatever else you have configured) to switch keyboard layouts, but that far, far beats using an entirely different keyboard. My desk doesn't even have enough space to put another keyboard.

You know what, we should have keyboards with small OLED screens in each key... one size fits all, no need for localized layouts, no need to remember what you mapped where or mess up your keyboard with tape... Maybe in a few years when the price of OLED screens goes down, who knows...

[dee.]

So grab Dungeons Of Dredmor, it's worth it, theres tons of mods for it and it's fully native. The expansion packs are worth it as well.

http://www.gaslampgames.com/

http://www.desura.com/games/dungeons-of-dredmor

http://steamcommunity.com/app/98800

Graphics? Interfaces? Blasphemy. When I was your age, all we had was ASCII and imagination. Kids these days, get off my lawn...

[dee.]

hehe, you started the one upsmanship with an incorrect statement. I still prefer vi type keybindings for playing roguelikes although its been years since I've played one.

Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup is probably the best authentic RL that's still in active development today (IMO, YMMV etc). It's a direct fork/continuation of the classic Dungeon Crawl, has optional tile graphics but still works in ASCII. Lots of stuff and features added but the feeling of the original is still there.

Another one that is highly entertaining and very addictive: HyperRogue. It's basically like Rogue but on a hyperbolic plane. The geometry of the game map does not make sense in any conventional way... it's a hyperbolic plane, looks like an Escher painting, consists entirely of tesselated septagons (no, don't ask me how the hell that works). It's highly unlikely to even find the same place twice, unless you retrace your steps exactly. One hit deaths, very simple game but still very addictive. Only problem is, the Linux version seems to crash sometimes, and the development doesn't seem very active... it's open source though, hope someone picks up the project again.

[GreatEmerald]

Well that's just stupid, whoever designed the ...uh... Ą?ERTY layout did a shoddy job. I'm typing this on a Finnish/Swedish keyboard, it basically just has 3 extra keys - ?, ?, ? - and all the keys in the "standard" US layout are still available, some keys are combined in one key (like, you get the <, > and | symbols all from the same key, , and ; are in the same key because ? is where ; normally is, and so on), it means I can type in Finnish, Swedish or English, just have to use AltGr a bit more often than with a US layout keyboard.

But, maybe all localized keyboards aren't designed as smartly... then I guess it makes sense not to use one.

I don't really follow... But it sounds the same as in both the number row layout and Ą?ERTY ? you can still get the English letters by holding Alt Gr. But that just temporarily switches the layout to US when you hold it.

You know what, we should have keyboards with small OLED screens in each key... one size fits all, no need for localized layouts, no need to remember what you mapped where or mess up your keyboard with tape... Maybe in a few years when the price of OLED screens goes down, who knows...

Indeed. There have been clamshell tablets where one half is a virtual keyboard controlled by a touchscreen, from what I remember. Though that's not quite as nice as using an actual keyboard.

[esmaeilhamdy]

Well that's just stupid, whoever designed the ...uh... Ą?ERTY layout did a shoddy job. I'm typing this on a Finnish/Swedish keyboard, it basically just has 3 extra keys - ?, ?, ? - and all the keys in the "standard" US layout are still available, some keys are combined in one key (like, you get the <, > and | symbols all from the same key, , and ; are in the same key because ? is where ; normally is, and so on), it means I can type in Finnish, Swedish or English, just have to use AltGr a bit more often than with a US layout keyboard.

But, maybe all localized keyboards aren't designed as smartly... then I guess it makes sense not to use one.



You know what, we should have keyboards with small OLED screens in each key... one size fits all, no need for localized layouts, no need to remember what you mapped where or mess up your keyboard with tape... Maybe in a few years when the price of OLED screens goes down, who knows...

hehe, you started the one upsmanship with an incorrect statement. I still prefer vi type keybindings for playing roguelikes although its been years since I've played one.

My current keyboard is several years old, it appears I've never touched the number pad. I dont' do data entry though, mostly just scientific programming with mostly variables and a few numerics mixed in which makes me stay "at home". And yes I'm a heavy vi user so I naturally use just a basic subset of a keyboard anyways.

So for internationalization, what do people do with laptop keyboards which tend to dump the keypad anyways? I notice asian language entry doesn't use the keypad and I haven't seen anyone operate a keyboard with cyrillic or other languages that may require a smallish superset of a 101 or so key keyboard.