XBMC Ported To Run On Mir Display Server

[Aleve Sicofante]

I just read this in one of the first posts: "there can be a 1000 distros, and it doesn't matter because you can still run the same software in all of them". I laughed.

Now back to the point: I love the fact that XBMC has been EASILY ported to both Wayland and Mir. I understand the port comes from X, so we can expect an easy transition for all our software.

I have a feeling that more than two thirds of non-geek Linux users are on Ubuntu, so all this Wayland vs Mir war is yet another geeky one. Hardware vendors will go with consumers, and consumers have been going with Ubuntu for years already. That's what Steam cares about. That's what ordinary people cares about. That's what probably Nvidia and AMD care about. Fragmentation is over in non-geek land. Distro wars are over in non-geek land. Ubuntu IS the desktop Linux as much as Android is the phone Linux.

Of course, in the infra-world where geek warriors abound, all sorts of wars are still being fought, and probably will forever. It seems to be part of the fun or something. No one cares in the real world. Really.

[mrugiero]

You mention that game developers want to reach users. According to steam survey numbers most linux gamers (not counting those who boot to windows for gaming) are Ubuntu users. So why would they be negatively impacted if they use Mir? Would that not be the demographic that steam/Nvidia/AMD would be most interested in?

Maybe, maybe not. I for one know an Arch user running Steam. But, I accept your point.

Yes XMir is currently slower, but will be less so when it sees the light of day. Again what have they lost?

It's still a technically bad decision. It gives no features, since the user will only see an X server, and it makes a greater bug surface. And, performance will not be better than it is with pure X.org, so what's the need to replace it before Mir is actually ready to be used natively? I said several times I'm not completely against Mir, but I'm against XMir as a platform for the desktop. Still, the cases where it brings problems shouldn't be ignored.

1. They are being forced to use Mir against thier will (I see no evidence for this)

Being the most user-friendly one, lots of users are somehow 'forced' to use Mir. My friends are either on Ubuntu or on Windows, there's no other option for them. And I'd prefer to not to need to switch Ubuntu, but this is unlikely anyway since the flavor I use (Xubuntu) won't switch to Mir or XMir; if they change their plans at some point, I'll probably switch to Arch.

2. That only wayland developers have the right to attempt to replace X (if so how did they get this right?)

Nobody said so. They are probably the most able to get things right, since they are familiar to the inner works of display servers and know the X11 flaws in depth, but nothing else.

3. Mir might turn out to be better than wayland and doom the project that you have spent so much time working on (again what evidence is there of this?)

I don't think anyone fears that. Even when they could be better on some areas, if they get different enough to, they will be better on some and worse on some other, like it happens with everything.

4. They have the right to dictate when and where fragmentation can and should occur (if so how did you get this right?)

Again, nobody is banning Canonical from doing nothing. We are stating our disagreement, and our reasons to. Something they didn't really. However, some of us, users and developers, would like to see a real reason to increase fragmentation, aside from "because we rulez".

As with everything in the linux world, if you don't like it,don't use it, or fork it and make it better.

When the problem is fragmentation, none of those solve anything, and the latter actually creates more problems.

Can threads that mention Ubuntu now go back to discussing what is in the article? It is tiring looking through the threads for interesting on topic discussion. There used to be much more of that.

OK, so what do you want to discuss? Again, articles themselves aren't arguable about, because they reflect facts. Yes, XBMC got ported to both Wayland and Mir. That's it. Do you have anything to discuss about it? Go, see, the code is there, end of discussion. Everything else would be "off topic", aside from congratulating the developer. Then, you can state "I don't like XBMC because bla bla bla" or "I love it because foo", but it would be the same as the discussion about Mir and Wayland.

[V10lator]

What exactly is wrong with that comment? Would you clear to explain? Maybe you should ask Mark which mistakes exactly he thinks Wayland is repeating before assuming you know what he is talking about?

Maybe you should read the comment before trying to defend Mark?

I think Wayland is repeating the mistakes of X

Read closer:

I think Wayland is repeating the mistakes of X

So he THINKS, he doesn't KNOW! And for asking for more information: How when he closes the conversation after giving that reply? :P

Here's the whole bullshit he posted for anyone interested: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/arch...comment-402807

[mrugiero]

I just read this in one of the first posts: "there can be a 1000 distros, and it doesn't matter because you can still run the same software in all of them". I laughed.

Now back to the point: I love the fact that XBMC has been EASILY ported to both Wayland and Mir. I understand the port comes from X, so we can expect an easy transition for all our software.

I have a feeling that more than two thirds of non-geek Linux users are on Ubuntu, so all this Wayland vs Mir war is yet another geeky one. Hardware vendors will go with consumers, and consumers have been going with Ubuntu for years already. That's what Steam cares about. That's what ordinary people cares about. That's what probably Nvidia and AMD care about. Fragmentation is over in non-geek land. Distro wars are over in non-geek land. Ubuntu IS the desktop Linux as much as Android is the phone Linux.

Of course, in the infra-world where geek warriors abound, all sorts of wars are still being fought, and probably will forever. It seems to be part of the fun or something. No one cares in the real world. Really.

You are partially wrong. It's a geek's war, yes, because non-geeks doesn't even know Wayland exists. You are right that more than two thirds of non-geek *home* Linux users are on Ubuntu, in fact, I'd rather say 99% are, with the other 1% being people whose a friend installed Fedora or OpenSUSE or Debian to. 'Consumers' is something far bigger than that. And most people who *work* with Linux (who, as far as we care, might use Windows or Mac on their homes) use RHEL or some other enterprise distro, which will probably use Wayland. And even when Steam doesn't give half a cow's shit about them, Nvidia and AMD does, and Intel, too.

Some people seem to think computers are only used to play games or run a spreadsheet in your home.

[Scimmia]

I just read this in one of the first posts: "there can be a 1000 distros, and it doesn't matter because you can still run the same software in all of them". I laughed.

Now back to the point: I love the fact that XBMC has been EASILY ported to both Wayland and Mir. I understand the port comes from X, so we can expect an easy transition for all our software.

I have a feeling that more than two thirds of non-geek Linux users are on Ubuntu, so all this Wayland vs Mir war is yet another geeky one. Hardware vendors will go with consumers, and consumers have been going with Ubuntu for years already. That's what Steam cares about. That's what ordinary people cares about. That's what probably Nvidia and AMD care about. Fragmentation is over in non-geek land. Distro wars are over in non-geek land. Ubuntu IS the desktop Linux as much as Android is the phone Linux.

Of course, in the infra-world where geek warriors abound, all sorts of wars are still being fought, and probably will forever. It seems to be part of the fun or something. No one cares in the real world. Really.

So many things wrong with this post, but I'll just point out the most glaring.

AMD and Nvidia don't give a rat's ass about consumer Linux support. Enterprise Linux support is where they can actually make money, so that's what they care about.

[doom_Oo7]

Some people seem to think computers are only used to play games or run a spreadsheet in your home.

Well, it's their more widespread usage.
Also, for instance in my school every computer is under Debian Wheezy (around 500 / 600 maybe?) and everyone is very happy.

[erendorn]

Well, it's their more widespread usage.
Also, for instance in my school every computer is under Debian Wheezy (around 500 / 600 maybe?) and everyone is very happy.

But "widespread" is not necessarily a relevant metric for corporate interest.

And yes debian is widely used in scholar/research environment. But still not Ubuntu, and still not buying many expensive rendering or computing cards.

[arokh]

Wayland devs should just shut up and focus on proving their code is better. Winner takes all, now go and cry about it somewhere else and let's focus on the interesting thing which is XBMC running without an X server! When is input support coming? I want to run this ASAP

[Aleve Sicofante]

You are partially wrong. It's a geek's war, yes, because non-geeks doesn't even know Wayland exists. You are right that more than two thirds of non-geek *home* Linux users are on Ubuntu, in fact, I'd rather say 99% are, with the other 1% being people whose a friend installed Fedora or OpenSUSE or Debian to. 'Consumers' is something far bigger than that. And most people who *work* with Linux (who, as far as we care, might use Windows or Mac on their homes) use RHEL or some other enterprise distro, which will probably use Wayland. And even when Steam doesn't give half a cow's shit about them, Nvidia and AMD does, and Intel, too.

Some people seem to think computers are only used to play games or run a spreadsheet in your home.

You don't seem to understand the difference between consumers and enterprise businesses. Enterprise is basically "office". There are even less enterprise users using Nvidia or AMD graphics than consumers.

[Aleve Sicofante]

So many things wrong with this post, but I'll just point out the most glaring.

AMD and Nvidia don't give a rat's ass about consumer Linux support. Enterprise Linux support is where they can actually make money, so that's what they care about.

Nvidia and AMD don't make a dime on enterprise DESKTOP Linux. Maybe we should define enterprise desktop users before going on with this nonsense?