Fedora 20 Might No Longer Install Syslog

[Ericg]

Remember 1 min shutdown time on Windows? they have it too and also there's another issue when you have entry in fstab Hard Driver for example and you physically unplugged it systemd will just refuses to let you log in

Link to the fstab bug report?

Also the 1 minute shutdown thing? yeeeeaaah....Thuroughly enjoying a 5second shutdown and 8second cold-boot-to-desktop here. The only thing that can make shutdown hang in systemd is 2 big things...

1) You just wrote a crapload of data to a hard drive and are waiting for it to be synced to disk
2) a service that refuses to exit, in which case systemd waits a preset amount of time ( I believe it IS 60seconds) before going "Screw it" and killing that said service anyway. Which is a precaution, not a bug.

[Ramiliez]

Link to the fstab bug report?

Also the 1 minute shutdown thing? yeeeeaaah....Thuroughly enjoying a 5second shutdown and 8second cold-boot-to-desktop here. The only thing that can make shutdown hang in systemd is 2 big things...

1) You just wrote a crapload of data to a hard drive and are waiting for it to be synced to disk
2) a service that refuses to exit, in which case systemd waits a preset amount of time ( I believe it IS 60seconds) before going "Screw it" and killing that said service anyway. Which is a precaution, not a bug.

So its not a bug its a feature?

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=985534

[Ericg]

So its not a bug its a feature?

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=985534

Is the invalid fstab entry isn't marked with "nofail" then it will cause a fatal error no matter what init system you are under. Thats not specific to systemd, I had plenty of problems with that when I first started using Arch Linux and I wanted my external hard drive mounted all the time-- took me awhile to discover "nofail"

"Feature" is a stretch, but I would stick with precaution. Some services have built in monitors to detect if their process has hung and to handle it on their own gracefully, some don't. Some like to do a lot of things on shutdown. Systemd says "All processes have X seconds from the time they are told to shutdown to exit cleanly or I'm putting a bullet in whichever ones don't." Its THAT, or let them be hung and then the only thing that will make them exit is a hard shutdown.

Take your pick... timed bullet from the process manager, or forced shutdown from the user?

[Ramiliez]

Is the invalid fstab entry isn't marked with "nofail" then it will cause a fatal error no matter what init system you are under. Thats not specific to systemd, I had plenty of problems with that when I first started using Arch Linux and I wanted my external hard drive mounted all the time-- took me awhile to discover "nofail"

"Feature" is a stretch, but I would stick with precaution. Some services have built in monitors to detect if their process has hung and to handle it on their own gracefully, some don't. Some like to do a lot of things on shutdown. Systemd says "All processes have X seconds from the time they are told to shutdown to exit cleanly or I'm putting a bullet in whichever ones don't." Its THAT, or let them be hung and then the only thing that will make them exit is a hard shutdown.

Take your pick... timed bullet from the process manager, or forced shutdown from the user?

OpenRC ignores uninstalled drives with with fstab entry no need to do anything .

[Ericg]

OpenRC ignores uninstalled drives with with fstab entry no need to do anything .

Thats incorrect behavior... If a drive is not available the EXPECTED behavior is to error UNLESS nofail is specified. I think its even supposed to error if a drive that is marked as "noauto" is not available because it still checks to see if it exists.

[Ramiliez]

Thats incorrect behavior... If a drive is not available the EXPECTED behavior is to error UNLESS nofail is specified. I think its even supposed to error if a drive that is marked as "noauto" is not available because it still checks to see if it exists.

Incorrect schmincorrect its SANE behaviour look since i had no clue what is the problem i had to page trough journalctl. I wasted 10minutes of my life thanks to this "feature" Instead warning me hey dummy your harddrive wasnt found no systemd has scare me with generic emergency mode bah

[johnc]

Incorrect schmincorrect its SANE behaviour look since i had no clue what is the problem i had to page trough journalctl. I wasted 10minutes of my life thanks to this "feature" Instead warning me hey dummy your harddrive wasnt found no systemd has scare me with generic emergency mode bah

It's perfect for new users. Giving them a blank screen and saying "good luck" is just what we need to bring folks over from Windows.

[Ericg]

Incorrect schmincorrect its SANE behaviour look since i had no clue what is the problem i had to page trough journalctl. I wasted 10minutes of my life thanks to this "feature" Instead warning me hey dummy your harddrive wasnt found no systemd has scare me with generic emergency mode bah

I'm not arguing sane or insane. I'm arguing correct or incorrect according to spec / documentation. And documentation states that if its not marked with "nofail" then its lack of existence is an error.

If you don't like it talk to the developers, both systemd and kernel.

[Ramiliez]

It's perfect for new users. Giving them a blank screen and saying "good luck" is just what we need to bring folks over from Windows.

Exactly i mean its crazy they made systemd which is immensely complicated with thousands of lines of code but it cannot display why it failed to boot

[curaga]

My docs don't even mention nofail. It must be a relatively recent option.

And no, noauto options are not checked at all for existence.