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Thread: Fedora 20 Might No Longer Install Syslog

  1. #1
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    Default Fedora 20 Might No Longer Install Syslog

    Phoronix: Fedora 20 Might No Longer Install Syslog

    Beginning with Fedora 20, the Linux distribution is considering no longer installing rsyslog by default but would replace it with use of the systemd journal as the Fedora logging solution...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQxMTc

  2. #2
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    Yeah there's a full-blown debate going on there.. poor systemd devs, they've put so much effort into it and the best counter-argument they get is "because I'm not used to it".

  3. #3
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    Burn rsyslog with fire, then crucify it and leave it to the wolves!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jukkan View Post
    Yeah there's a full-blown debate going on there.. poor systemd devs, they've put so much effort into it and the best counter-argument they get is "because I'm not used to it".
    Have you read the same mailing list as I have? They have got plenty of arguments against removing rsyslog from the default installation, all what they could say about it was: but try it, you will like it, it is so much more useful and having journalctl not available is just anecdotal, so we do what we want anyways, we have just asked to look like we would care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vim_User View Post
    Have you read the same mailing list as I have? They have got plenty of arguments against removing rsyslog from the default installation, all what they could say about it was: but try it, you will like it, it is so much more useful and having journalctl not available is just anecdotal, so we do what we want anyways, we have just asked to look like we would care.
    dont you know?


  6. #6
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    wow, the mailing list thread is huge!
    Maybe someone who read it can list the mains pros and cons of the move?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by erendorn View Post
    wow, the mailing list thread is huge!
    Maybe someone who read it can list the mains pros and cons of the move?
    Con:
    - There are use-cases where journalctl might not be available, having rsyslog by default helps in those cases
    - There are a bunch of scripts that rely on /var/log/messages being available
    - Services like Logwatch can't use the binary log of journald

    Pro:
    - journald/journalctl gives you more information and better search options through indexing and stuff

    Basically it comes down to:
    Con:
    - There are use cases where you need rsyslog in the default installation
    Pro:
    - Those use-cases are irrelevant, journald/journalctl is better

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vim_User View Post
    Have you read the same mailing list as I have? They have got plenty of arguments against removing rsyslog from the default installation, all what they could say about it was: but try it, you will like it, it is so much more useful and having journalctl not available is just anecdotal, so we do what we want anyways, we have just asked to look like we would care.
    I didn't read everything, but what it looked like to me:

    Pros:
    - faster boot with less services and less disk usage
    - journalctl provides more info than syslog and better search options, so using it should be couraged

    Cons:
    - anything relying on /var/log/messages has to be changed to read the output of journalctl (not unresolvable)
    - /var/log/messages can be read with a simple text editor (true con if journalctl is not available)
    - some people like to have /var/log/messages as a default because they are used to it (not a good argument)

    I don't like the idea of forcing systemd to all Linux users either but also it doesn't make sense to keep multiple log implementations running for legacy reasons in a distro like Fedora.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jukkan View Post
    I didn't read everything, but what it looked like to me:

    Pros:
    - faster boot with less services and less disk usage
    - journalctl provides more info than syslog and better search options, so using it should be couraged

    Cons:
    - anything relying on /var/log/messages has to be changed to read the output of journalctl (not unresolvable)
    - /var/log/messages can be read with a simple text editor (true con if journalctl is not available)
    - some people like to have /var/log/messages as a default because they are used to it (not a good argument)

    I don't like the idea of forcing systemd to all Linux users either but also it doesn't make sense to keep multiple log implementations running for legacy reasons in a distro like Fedora.
    You missed the one pretty at the beginning of the thread: If journalctl for whatever reason is not available (for example inaccessible /usr-partition) you can still read the logs with an already running Bash if rsyslog is present, but you can't do anything without it being present. That doesn't sound like a legacy reason, this is a technical reason.

  10. #10
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    Why does this sound like a shitty Mircrosoft implementation?

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