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Thread: Mir Support Not Merged For Mesa 9.2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    I'm pretty sure Canonical will start pointing fingers at upstream soon, accusing them of not collaborating.

    It's their own fault, playing foul is not easily forgiven.
    Just Like they did to KDE Gnome Xfce LXDE Developers Etc?

    Mesa is being Developed for Wayland and for them wanting for it to be developed for Mir is Funny this is one of the Biggest Fails i seen in a long time "If you build it, they will come"


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dh04000 View Post
    Project A: Look Canonical doesn't collaborate with anyone. They submitted collaborative code to us?!? I'm not going to collaborate with them, they didn't play well with Project X, so if we don't its their fault not us.
    It's not fair, but as they say, "Your reputation precedes you." Canonical got a bad reputation by deviating from Gnome and then making something very much like Gnome shell.

    As an old-school basketball fan, I'm reminded of Dennis Rodman and his "reputation" fouls (he never got the benefit of the doubt on close calls)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackout23 View Post
    I also don't get it why they wait for NVIDA and AMD to make new drivers. Why don't they write their own drivers? Just fork nouveau.
    All of you are forgetting the most important part: spreading FUD to the projects they fork

    Quote Originally Posted by dh04000 View Post
    Project A: Look Canonical doesn't collaborate with anyone. They sumbitted collaborative code to us?!? I'm not going to collaborate with them, they didn't play well with Project X, so if we don't its their fault not us.

    Project B: Look Canonical doesn't collaborate with anyone. They sumbitted collaborative code to us?!? I'm not going to collaborate with them, they didn't play well with Project A, so if we don't its their fault not us.

    Project C: Look Canonical doesn't collaborate with anyone. They sumbitted collaborative code to us?!? I'm not going to collaborate with them, they didn't play well with Project B, so if we don't its their fault not us.

    Project D: Look Canonical doesn't collaborate with anyone. They sumbitted collaborative code to us?!? I'm not going to collaborate with them, they didn't play well with Project C, so if we don't its their fault not us.

    Rince, Wash, Repeat.
    There's a quite complex ecosystem. Collaborate is not only submitting code. If you do something that could easily fuck up all of the other projects, you are not collaborating, most likely you are predating, or at least trying to.
    If you don't collaborate with others, you have no one to blame but yourself. Selectve collaboration is the death of FOSS. Looking down GPL code to your selected few poisions GPL code and makes it no better than non-GPL code.
    Overforking, with the fragmentation it creates, is one of the most important problems on FOSS. Selective collaboration is a hackfix for that problem, and nothing else. Heck, if Ubuntu lovers can't stop saying "it's a free world, anybody can code what they want", well, any project is free to accept patches selectively, it's a free world, you can fork, the same you say about Mir. Also, it's still better to have GPL code. If a closed source app doesn't accept your patch (which I wonder how you did without the code anyway), that's it, end of the line. If a GPL one doesn't, you can fork. People might pay attention, or might not. It's not less a problem for fragmentation, but the harm is done already, and they should have seen it coming. Being free software doesn't mean they have to be liked, and they should have weighted that possibility. Also, keep in mind that the fact they screwed over Wayland isn't the most inspiring thing for collaborating with Canonical.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanL View Post
    Where do you people get this stuff? All the article says is that Mir will not be ready for the Mesa 9.2 release. Most likely, Canonical will use Mesa 9.2 + their Mir patches for Ubuntu 13.10. By the next Mesa release point, the API should be stable and the code will be well-tested and ready for merging.

    This "news" is not newsworthy IMO (just gets the Canoncial haters worked up).
    First point, yes, is news unworthy, and they will probably accept the patches.
    However, everything you say is stated on the article, and points the problems: they are on their own, and most likely they don't know in depth the mesa code base.

    About the haters, not everyone are Canonical haters. Some of us just have personal opinions about different things. If I'd hate Canonical, I wouldn't use any of their products, nor would I test their alphas and betas. This said, I think Mir is an awful choice. They didn't share their needs, and then they started blaming other projects for not fulfilling them, for a start. Then, this needs were actually fulfilled by the time they did their announcement. An open company that takes such a huge decision inside close doors is not really that open. I could keep all day. Then, they throw the testing on the end users. You see why I don't think this is going well? These are all bad choices, and I don't see how pointing this out turns me into a hater. I'm a user, and I will most likely be affected by their choices in one way or another.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    Mir is Funny this is one of the Biggest Fails i seen in a long time]
    This isn't 4chan. Go back to your games.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanL View Post
    This isn't 4chan. Go back to your games.
    well to be honest i doubt this patches will be accepted and is probable canonical got the idea already and won't bother anymore in trying

    1.) Mir is a single distro solution that im not sure mesa dev be eager to upstream
    2.) Nobody except canonical uses Mir, so the review process will be hard since mesa devs won't install Mir to test the patches
    3.) Who is going to maintain it? if that is not well defined no one will step to it fix it if it gets broken
    4.) Canonical send a patches already to mesa mailing list and those went straight to /dev/null

    Btw Michael is been reported Mir/Xmir is broken in radeon and nouveau drivers, maybe you should check it out as far as i care to look it only works on intel

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    About the haters, not everyone are Canonical haters. Some of us just have personal opinions about different things. If I'd hate Canonical, I wouldn't use any of their products, nor would I test their alphas and betas. This said, I think Mir is an awful choice. They didn't share their needs, and then they started blaming other projects for not fulfilling them, for a start. Then, this needs were actually fulfilled by the time they did their announcement. An open company that takes such a huge decision inside close doors is not really that open. I could keep all day. Then, they throw the testing on the end users. You see why I don't think this is going well? These are all bad choices, and I don't see how pointing this out turns me into a hater. I'm a user, and I will most likely be affected by their choices in one way or another.
    I think Mir is an awful choice as well
    i also think moving away from upstream is an awful choice

    Quote Originally Posted by DanL View Post
    This isn't 4chan. Go back to your games.
    have not used in all the day's of my life, it really was a fail for them to move away from upstream and not Build Mir on top of Wayland even more then what they did the we want to do our own Display Server and expecting all of upstream to work for them was just 100% retarded and not just that but use it's user base as tester's.......

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    About the haters, not everyone are Canonical haters. Some of us just have personal opinions about different things. If I'd hate Canonical, I wouldn't use any of their products, nor would I test their alphas and betas. This said, I think Mir is an awful choice. They didn't share their needs, and then they started blaming other projects for not fulfilling them, for a start. Then, this needs were actually fulfilled by the time they did their announcement. An open company that takes such a huge decision inside close doors is not really that open. I could keep all day. Then, they throw the testing on the end users. You see why I don't think this is going well? These are all bad choices, and I don't see how pointing this out turns me into a hater. I'm a user, and I will most likely be affected by their choices in one way or another.
    That's pretty much my point of view too, and that's good stuff. I just don't want to see phoronix become 4chan...

  8. #18
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    So it is: Open source software... where you can do whatever you want (as long as we approve)?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by boast View Post
    So it is: Open source software... where you can do whatever you want (as long as we approve)?
    Nice try!

    That's not open-source software in general.
    What you are searching for is BSD-style OSS.
    No rules at all means anarchy at its best.

    And I even agree to "as long as we approve":
    Besides the legal aspect, i.e. the license, you always
    have a moral component to a _working_ community.
    I can fully understand if the freedesktop.org community
    does not want to work with/for Canonical anymore.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanL View Post
    That's pretty much my point of view too, and that's good stuff. I just don't want to see phoronix become 4chan...
    well have fun with your Out of Tree Mir/Mesa/UDebian i'm going to play some DOTA 2 on my 25 year old Xserver it's just FUD of phoronix becoming 4chan's

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