Mark Shuttleworth Declares Mir A Performance Win

[coder543]

That's funny:

http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=11213

Wayland has been in Fedora since 2010-11-15 . People are running GTK+ apps natively in Wayland on Fedora:

http://worldofgnome.org/easily-try-gtk-under-wayland-in-fedora-19/

The GNOME Wiki even has the instructions:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Wayland/GTK+

I do find it amazing how willing people are to say things that are so utterly and completely wrong that they could check for themselves with Google and thirty seconds.

I do find it amazing how unwilling people are to interpret people's words without slanting them heavily to one side or the other. What I said is true, regardless of anything you or anyone else has linked to. The wayland people did not have the power to do a forced beta test like Canonical is doing with Mir. Who cares whether it has been available in repos since the late 17th century or not? Or whether it became fully functional back when men traveled only on horseback? My statement still stands as correct even if both of these (absolutely absurd) statements about the condition of Wayland were true.

[AdamW]

I do find it amazing how unwilling people are to interpret people's words without slanting them heavily to one side or the other. What I said is true, regardless of anything you or anyone else has linked to. The wayland people did not have the power to do a forced beta test like Canonical is doing with Mir. Who cares whether it has been available in repos since the late 17th century or not? Or whether it became fully functional back when men traveled only on horseback? My statement still stands as correct even if both of those statements were true.

You wrote:

"No other distro cares enough about Wayland to beta test it for them, so of course it hasn't been pushed out."

You didn't say anything about "forced".

[coder543]

You wrote:

"No other distro cares enough about Wayland to beta test it for them, so of course it hasn't been pushed out."

You didn't say anything about "forced".

If a whole distro is beta testing it, that means the entire distro is switching, by default, to Wayland to "see how it goes". That's what a distro beta testing it is. Canonical is using Ubuntu to beta test Mir. They're not just letting their distro's users beta test it. They are using the distro to beta test it. Do you see the difference in those statements? If the distro is beta testing it, that means all but the most technically minded users (who also don't want to be beta testing it) are testing it too.

Red Hat has not used Fedora to beta test Wayland. Ever. They've let Fedora users beta test Wayland at their leisure. Red Hat does not care enough about Wayland to beta test it with Fedora.

English is a subtle language... what I said was very clear, but the way you chose to interpret it was in opposition to the meaning. The distro caring enough about Wayland to beta test it has nothing to do with the users caring enough about Wayland to beta test it.

I'm sorry if this post seems harsh, but you shouldn't tell anyone they're too lazy to use Google if you're too lazy to interpret their statement correctly. My statement was not ambiguous, unless you're claiming that more than 50% of Fedora users are actively using Wayland to help beta test it. In such a case as that, then the distro is beta testing it by consensus... but that's not the case. It's just a sparse collection of users who are beta testing it.

[F i L]

Weston? That joke that didn't even have a minimize/maximize button? Hahaha. Is this the best you can do? Because after so many years of 'progress' wayland still seems to be in the dark ages.

As apposed to what? You do realize that 13.10 is running XMir, right? X11 is doing most everything.. Mir is just setting up displays and flipping backbuffers. Running 13.10 off Mir might be a fine development stepping stone, but don't pretend like it's some great accomplishment when Wayland has been showing much more technically impressive demos for a long time.

This is why I think Canonical's marketing strategy might actually work... people don't know the difference and they gain from the confusion if they can spin it right.

[jrch2k8]

if bo$$ wasn't enough now we have coder543, why canonical threads always bring ppl that have an absolute 0 technical knowledge to do the sad try of justify something they don't even or can understand? this is a technical news forum for god sakes, i don't go to WoW forums to explain why the engine sucks, do i? or why the physics in some skills are wrong, do i?

michael in the new site make sure the forum allows make downvoted posts invisible or at least block so it doesn't show[could be premium if you want]

[jrch2k8]

If a whole distro is beta testing it, that means the entire distro is switching, by default, to Wayland to "see how it goes". That's what a distro beta testing it is. Canonical is using Ubuntu to beta test Mir. They're not just letting their distro's users beta test it. They are using the distro to beta test it. Do you see the difference in those statements? If the distro is beta testing it, that means all but the most technically minded users (who also don't want to be beta testing it) are testing it too.

Red Hat has not used Fedora to beta test Wayland. Ever. They've let Fedora users beta test Wayland at their leisure. Red Hat does not care enough about Wayland to beta test it with Fedora.

English is a subtle language... what I said was very clear, but the way you chose to interpret it was in opposition to the meaning. The distro caring enough about Wayland to beta test it has nothing to do with the users caring enough about Wayland to beta test it.

I'm sorry if this post seems harsh, but you shouldn't tell anyone they're too lazy to use Google if you're too lazy to interpret their statement correctly. My statement was not ambiguous, unless you're claiming that more than 50% of Fedora users are actively using Wayland to help beta test it. In such a case as that, then the distro is beta testing it by consensus... but that's not the case. It's just a sparse collection of users who are beta testing it.

looking for an appropiated facepalm image, this is just so wrong and retarded the regular ones don't do the trick

[coder543]

if bo$$ wasn't enough now we have coder543, why canonical threads always bring ppl that have an absolute 0 technical knowledge to do the sad try of justify something they don't even or can understand? this is a technical news forum for god sakes, i don't go to WoW forums to explain why the engine sucks, do i? or why the physics in some skills are wrong, do i?

michael in the new site make sure the forum allows make downvoted posts invisible or at least block so it doesn't show[could be premium if you want]

Please, enlighten me as to my shortcomings. I don't believe I've made a single statement in this forum today that would indicate that I favor Mir or Wayland or Canonical or any particular group, and no one has actually proven any of my statements to be false. Maybe you should be the one downvoted?

I do not care whether Mir or Wayland end up winning. It seriously does not matter which one wins either. If one of them wins over the other, then it is most likely superior in some concrete way, so the other one winning would have been getting something second rate. If Mir is completely eliminated in the next year, that's fine by me. If Wayland is, so be it. The quantity of Open Source market share a project receives is a result of many factors, but favoritism from me is not really one of them.

[coder543]

looking for an appropiated facepalm image, this is just so wrong and retarded the regular ones don't do the trick

I'm waiting on some argument with substance to be made... you're looking for a facepalm? hmm.

[F i L]

...unless you're claiming that more than 50% of Fedora users are actively using Wayland to help beta test it.

ubuntu 13.10 is running a fullscreen XMir app... that's hardly "beta testing Mir" except for screen management and basic stuff... which i'm pretty sure those features are already pretty functional and tested on Wayland by comparison.

Fedora will probably wait until Gnome & KDE support Wayland directly before shipping with it, since that's ultimately the goal of these X11 replacements.

[coder543]

ubuntu 13.10 is running a fullscreen XMir app... that's hardly "beta testing Mir" except for screen management and basic stuff... which i'm pretty sure those features are already pretty functional and tested on Wayland by comparison.

Fedora will probably wait until Gnome & KDE support Wayland direction before shipping with it, since that's ultimately the goal of these X11 replacements.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but XMir runs on top of Mir, so Mir is still being used, and on Ubuntu 13.10 you'll have the option of testing Unity8, which will be running purely on Mir... but the real beta test for this release is with Mir utilizing XMir. It's still a significant technical accomplishment, and more than just buffer swapping. I wouldn't be too quick to discount it. But, yes, Wayland is further along. It has been in development for many years... I would expect no less of it.