Originally posted by chrisb
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Originally posted by curaga View PostThere's a difference between generic widgets (gtk, qt) and desktop-specific ones (libgnome* libkde*). If your app pulls in half of KDE, it can't really be called a desktop-agnostic app with any conscience.
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I was responding more to chrisb:
And I have no idea why generic programming tools like KDevelop/Nemiver were ever considered desktop specific. It can't be just about the widgets - nobody says that Skype is KDE specific because it uses Qt, or that Firefox is Gnome specific because it uses GTK.
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Originally posted by curaga View PostI was responding more to chrisb:
KDevelop pulls in half of KDE, therefore it's undesirable to install unless you run KDE.
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Originally posted by dee. View PostWhy? Because of disk space or what? Not that big an issue, to be honest. I use Cinnamon, but I have no problems letting KDE libs squat on my HD so that I can use programs like Krita.
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Originally posted by mrugiero View PostNot only disk space, but memory use. If you don't use KDE, this libs won't be shared by anything else, so there's no amortization for using libraries at all.
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Originally posted by dee. View PostCorrect me if I'm wrong, but won't those libraries only be used when an application is running that needs them? So there'd be no memory penalty the rest of the time.
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Originally posted by mrugiero View PostWell, there are two options, when a program drags them behind it: either, packagers are total jerks, and make you install libraries the program won't use, just for the sake of taking space, or the program does use them, and that's why they are dependencies. I tend to incline for the latter possibility.
Besides, the KDE libs don't seem to use all that much memory. When I start up Krita, it only takes up about 160-180 MiB of memory (although granted, I don't know how many of the KDE libs it uses). And unless you're using some really old, pre-DDR1 hardware, you're likely to have at least 2GB RAM, seeing as RAM is pretty cheap these days, so I don't really see the memory usage much of a concern. (And if you have pre-DDR1 hardware, you'll probably want to use something more lightweight than most KDE-based apps, anyway...)
I guess it'd be nice if we'd have this one universal toolkit library that would be suitable for the purposes of every possible application, on every possible hardware, to the extent that we'd never need any other toolkits... and as long as we're making wishes, I'd like to win the lottery, too
But in the meanwhile, I'm not going to refrain from using an application because it happens to use different libraries than most of the stuff on my computer. We've got this great system in place where we can have different desktops, with their different software collections, yet we can still run any apps in any DE - it's kind of cool. And it's also why Mir is such a horrible idea, because it threatens to break this system of interoperability.
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Originally posted by dee. View PostI mean, won't the libs only be taking up memory when some program is using them, ie. when you're running a program that needs those libs? And the rest of the time, when you're not using that program, the libs won't be taking up memory... what I'm saying is, that the additional memory usage is only when the application is in use, it won't affect the memory usage of the rest of your system.
Besides, the KDE libs don't seem to use all that much memory. When I start up Krita, it only takes up about 160-180 MiB of memory (although granted, I don't know how many of the KDE libs it uses). And unless you're using some really old, pre-DDR1 hardware, you're likely to have at least 2GB RAM, seeing as RAM is pretty cheap these days, so I don't really see the memory usage much of a concern. (And if you have pre-DDR1 hardware, you'll probably want to use something more lightweight than most KDE-based apps, anyway...)
I guess it'd be nice if we'd have this one universal toolkit library that would be suitable for the purposes of every possible application, on every possible hardware, to the extent that we'd never need any other toolkits... and as long as we're making wishes, I'd like to win the lottery, too
But in the meanwhile, I'm not going to refrain from using an application because it happens to use different libraries than most of the stuff on my computer. We've got this great system in place where we can have different desktops, with their different software collections, yet we can still run any apps in any DE - it's kind of cool. And it's also why Mir is such a horrible idea, because it threatens to break this system of interoperability.
The thing with Mir and interoperability, I *think* it's more LightDM's fault than anything else's. As I see it, LightDM, which does a pretty basic use of display in general, could start as a DRI only app and then open the correct display server for the desktop you choose to use. But maybe there are technical impediments for that idea that I'm not able to see.
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