Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 235

Thread: Sony's PlayStation 4 Is Running Modified FreeBSD 9

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    14,527

    Default Sony's PlayStation 4 Is Running Modified FreeBSD 9

    Phoronix: Sony's PlayStation 4 Is Running Modified FreeBSD 9

    The operating system at the heart of Sony's PlayStation 4 is FreeBSD 9.0...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTM5NDI

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    969

    Default

    But can FreeBSD run on Playstation or any of its software? Any *freedoms* left after Sony facelifting? Would also be interesting if at least Sony contributed anything back?..

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    334

    Default

    So, what APIs will be available there for developers?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,024

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
    So, what APIs will be available there for developers?
    A combination of the BSD POSIX-like APIs for basic OS/hardware services, some superior games-centric APIs (a port of the Direct3D 11 graphics API rather than the CAD-oriented OpenGL mess as one example), plus the console-specific Sony PSN/chat/profile/video/controller APIs.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elanthis View Post
    A combination of the BSD POSIX-like APIs for basic OS/hardware services, some superior games-centric APIs (a port of the Direct3D 11 graphics API rather than the CAD-oriented OpenGL mess as one example), plus the console-specific Sony PSN/chat/profile/video/controller APIs.
    Is this confirmed that Sony is writing their own graphics API rather than using OpenGL? That's a bit disappointing.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    Is this confirmed that Sony is writing their own graphics API rather than using OpenGL? That's a bit disappointing.
    Historically, Sony always wrote his own API. I don't know the PS1 API, but the PS2 API was rather crude (and most "shaders'" has to be written in assembler, using the Emotion Engine "cores" (more like a DSP)) The PS3 used a GL-like API (designed under the responsibility of Remy Arnaud IIRC, who was also in charge of the definition of COLLADA at the Khronos group at the same time). For the PS4, I guess they'll follow the path set for the PS3 : they're going to create an API which is close to OpenGL while not being OpenGL. This will allow the developpers to easily get some code on the console before they'll start to optimize it (and use an API which they already used when they were working on the PS3).

    You must understand that console game development is not alike PC game development. You have to taylor your APIs to your machine in order to lift all the performance issues you may find. Adapting a standard graphic stack (with all its genericity whose goal is to fully abstract a large number of very different hardware) is not a good thing. It's even worse, since the devleoppers will want to have a fine-grained control over the hardware (that's why they added a special tag on the APU/GPU shared L2 cache cells ; this tag allows the developpers to control cache invalidation).

    Now, on the use of FreeBSD, it makes sense : Sony has a good knowlegde of MIPS OSes (MIPS were used in the PS1 and in the PS2), PowerPC OSes (through the Cell processor used in the PS3) yet it doesn't make sense for them to build yet another x86_64 OS from scracth when there is already many open source offers. The license of FreeBSD is specifically targetiing these needs - allowing a hardware vendor to adapt the OS to its specific needs without being forced to release their patches in the wild (you may or may not disagree on the philosophy yet that's the goal of the 3 clause BSD license).

    It doesn't mean that Sony is all clear here. The system probably use may GNU bits (including the C and C++ runtime if the screen captures are genuine) so it might be possible to ask them for some information on the subject. I suspect the GPL enforcement organisations are already looking at this subject (and if they don't, may I respectfully suggest them to do so?)

    (for those who believe that Michael served us yet another rumor - yes, it's true. Yet the rumor itself is traced back to VGLeaks, the guys who published the very first technical information on Durango (XBox One) and Orbis (PS4), showed us the first pictures of the Durango development machine and so on. It seems they are more reliable than CNN. In this case, they backup their claim with screenshots of the developpers boot screens. Since we're not April the 1st, I believe this story to be quite true. YMMV)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    Is this confirmed that Sony is writing their own graphics API rather than using OpenGL? That's a bit disappointing.
    For comparisons sake, lets look at the PS3's graphical API's: you had PSGL, Sonys OpenGL ES 2.0 implementation, and libgcm, the low-level graphical library.

    libgcm was the one developers most often used, as the necessity for speed was more imporant then using the OGL API.

    Understand, on hardware-locked systems, you can double performance using native API's over middleware API's. That makes lower-level libraries far more attractive and usable.

    I'm sure an OGL API will exist, but I doubt it will see substantial use.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    334

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elanthis View Post
    A combination of the BSD POSIX-like APIs for basic OS/hardware services, some superior games-centric APIs (a port of the Direct3D 11 graphics API rather than the CAD-oriented OpenGL mess as one example), plus the console-specific Sony PSN/chat/profile/video/controller APIs.
    D3D 11 on FreeBSD? This sounds rather weird to be true. Do you know this for sure? Isn't it Microsoft only, or it's some kind of independent mapping implementation similar to Wine's approach? I'd rather expect them to have OpenGL there. If you have any sources, that would be helpful.
    Last edited by shmerl; 06-23-2013 at 04:48 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,024

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shmerl View Post
    D3D 11 on FreeBSD? This sounds rather weird to be true. Do you know this for sure? Isn't it Microsoft only, or it's some kind of independent mapping implementation similar to Wine's approach? I'd rather expect them to have OpenGL there. If you have any sources, that would be helpful.
    D3D11-like. The native API is much lower-level than is possible on the varying hardware of a PC. It's designed similar to the D3D11 way of doing things, sorta like how Gallium3D is, plus some direct shader and debugging facilities not possible without using a fixed hardware target. This is akin to how the XBox360 was "D3D9.5" as the fixed hardware target provided many affordances that PCs cannot. There is an almost 100% compatible D3D11 wrapper for the PS4 API to make porting easier, of course. Google is your friend. More specific details than those available online are still under NDA as of this time.

    It is, put bluntly, fucking ridiculous to think that any major console would run OpenGL. As PC-centric as pure D3D is, OpenGL is significantly worse in terms of adding abstraction over the hardware itself, and only barely reflects (and only if you use the latest GL 4.3) how modern GPU hardware works. GL is only regaining any popularity because iOS and Android give you zero choice and shove it down your throat. If they offered something similar to D3D11 I'd bet a large wad of cold, hard cash that GL would again be relegated to the dusty niche it occupied in the years between the release of D3D8 and the release of the iPhone.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elanthis View Post
    A combination of the BSD POSIX-like APIs for basic OS/hardware services, some superior games-centric APIs (a port of the Direct3D 11 graphics API rather than the CAD-oriented OpenGL mess as one example), plus the console-specific Sony PSN/chat/profile/video/controller APIs.
    Playstation 3 and Vita use libgcm not OpenGL and PS4 is expected to have same APIs. There no really need for Direct3D, MS marketing made people think that is something that makes things better and everything using it.... where only Windows and Xbox using it
    Last edited by shadowriver; 07-19-2013 at 11:43 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •