Mir Still Causing Concerns By Ubuntu Derivatives

[dee.]

You leave firmware out of this.

Firmware belongs to hardware and IS a part of hardware. FOSS has got no say and should have no say over hardware.

Yes it has and should. Software does not magically become hardware just because it's supplied on a hardware platform by default or because it is designed to run on a very specific (ASIC) platform.

[YAFU]

In the long run, we should get away from proprietary drivers and _especially_ firmware.

Ok, but you tell me one thing: Do you agree with Setam proprietary software and proprietary software that is sold there? In the long run, should we get away from Steam and proprietary software that they sell?

[GreatEmerald]

Would you want to revert that situation back to pre-Ubuntu days because of a display server? You might get your ideally developed software that way, but it would barely help anyone (only a few).

That's exactly what Canonical is doing. Fracturing the platform into "Ubuntu" and "GNU/Linux", of whom both sides are back to the "pre-Ubuntu days".

Ubuntu may not be the best way, but right now it's still the only one. I'm not too happy about this and would like to see other companies trying to accomplish the same in a better way, but in reality, there's no one doing this. So it's not about aiming for the greatest popularity, but aiming for popularity at all.

The only one what? If you meant he only one walled garden, the only one not cooperating with the others, then yes, of course. If you mean the only one with OEM deals, we have other distributions as well (SUSE, Fedora). If you mean marketing, then I haven't seen much from Ubuntu lately as well. They're just going along with the whole "Ubuntu = Linux" thing. If you mean making a distribution that's easy to migrate to, then it gets beaten by Mageia by a long shot. And Ubuntu doesn't have much else beyond that.

[Sonadow]

Yes it has and should. Software does not magically become hardware just because it's supplied on a hardware platform by default or because it is designed to run on a very specific (ASIC) platform.

FOSS does not give anybody the right to demand corporations release trade secret logic and algorithms.

[Awesomeness]

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ub...ne/037287.html

Quote: ?f) Unity on Mir using Mir as a system compositor and KDE on Wayland using Wayland as a system compositor - Would not be able to switch between sessions.?

And now somebody try to tell that Mir was not designed to hurt the competition.

I'd equate sticking by Canonical as being like an abused partner staying in an abusive relationship. They should cut their losses and run.

Yeah. The Kubuntu maintainers have an irrational attachment to the Ubuntu base which has absolutely no technological reasoning.

[GreatEmerald]

Ok, but you tell me one thing: Do you agree with Setam proprietary software and proprietary software that is sold there? In the long run, should we get away from Steam and proprietary software that they sell?

In my opinion, Steam ? definitely, closed games ? not under current market conditions, no.

[GreatEmerald]

Quote: ?f) Unity on Mir using Mir as a system compositor and KDE on Wayland using Wayland as a system compositor - Would not be able to switch between sessions.?

And now somebody try to tell that Mir was not designed to hurt the competition.

Something tells me that we'll see MirWayland and WaylandMir for cross-compatibility in the long run...

[Sonadow]

Something tells me that we'll see MirWayland and WaylandMir for cross-compatibility in the long run...

If XWayland --> Run X on Wayland then assumption being
1) MirWayland --> Run Mir on Wayland and
2) WaylandMir --> Run Wayland on Mir

(2) is more likely than (1) to happen and most likely Canonical will write it in-house.
Very unlikely (1) will ever exist because most distributions probably have no intention running Ubuntu-only applications...unless it's a popular application.

[Awesomeness]

Something tells me that we'll see MirWayland and WaylandMir for cross-compatibility in the long run...

How and why?
A) Canonical does not want a stable interface to Mir. It would have to be a cat and mouse game chasing Canonical's erratic interface changes of Mir.
B) Mir has zero technological benefit over Wayland. In fact is way behind in development compared to Wayland.

[alexThunder]

That's exactly what Canonical is doing. Fracturing the platform into "Ubuntu" and "GNU/Linux", of whom both sides are back to the "pre-Ubuntu days".

That's the problem I was talking about. But that view is one sided, isn't it? Canonical is barely cooperating with others, but others apparently don't even want to cooperate. As I said, KDE devs, for instance, wouldn't even accept Mir patches. You can blame whatever faction you want, it won't help fix the issue. I can also understand, why KDE devs aren't too happy about Mir, but still, it doesn't help.

The only one what? If you meant he only one walled garden, the only one not cooperating with the others, then yes, of course. If you mean the only one with OEM deals, we have other distributions as well (SUSE, Fedora). If you mean marketing, then I haven't seen much from Ubuntu lately as well. They're just going along with the whole "Ubuntu = Linux" thing. If you mean making a distribution that's easy to migrate to, then it gets beaten by Mageia by a long shot. And Ubuntu doesn't have much else beyond that.

Walled garden? Why that? Nah, I guess you can figure out what I meant, if you take yourself some time and look at the Steam Survey. Sure, there are other distros, which are easy to use and there other distros with OEM deals - but they're not the ones usually reaching average end users - in reality.

Something tells me that we'll see MirWayland and WaylandMir for cross-compatibility in the long run...

I can smell that, too. Wouldn't be the worst solution, would it?

In my opinion, Steam ? definitely, closed games ? not under current market conditions, no.

It rarely happens, that there really is someone more stubborn than RMS ( http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/nonfree-games.en.html )