Kubuntu, KDE Has Little Hope For Ubuntu's Mir

[jrch2k8]

I am not talking about his childish whining rant against ubuntu. I am talking about his attitude towards performance and hardware support which he insist to deny.

About ubuntu:

1. is not childish is technically efficient, Mir is ubuntu specific for now and is under heavy development which make it very stupid to support it at this stage and a maintenance hell in the middle term[read and try to understand blog post].
2. KDE policy of non distro specific patch have more time than canonical in existance but somehow you assume martin created it out of his ass to troll ubuntu
3. KDE expressed it will support X11 and Wayland way before Mir was even an idea and they still do, so no problem here.
4. Qt5 have to support Mir before KDE even think about it and as far as i know there is only an lighthouse skeleton code and headers in an ubuntu bazaar repo somewhere but digia hasn't expressed any kind of Mir support up to date[at the very least it missed the Qt5.1 release and prolly Qt5.2].

i understand every wannabe smart ass that follow ubuntu religion think Mir will cure cancer and bring world peace or at very least make you feel you actually are a techie but Mir is very basic code right now with 0 support outside canonical scope[unity / "android drivers" libhubris is not from canonical] and is in fact very far behind in features to Wayland[could change in time], so until the protocol stabilize and Mir sees a first stable release forget about support outside canonical scope.

as an interesting note, if martin tomorrow decide to support Mir whatever it takes in kwin he will fail cuz Mir miss so many features right now that is technically impossible to make KDE/Kwin work with it[check their in code in the repo and you will understand why], their unity "next" demos are not the real thing but very basic render demos with fixed images and fake data to make it look pretty[is simpler that wayland demos but is better presented i give you that one]

About Performance:

1. Kwin is the most advanced compositor for X11 in existance hands down[tiled compositing, advanced shader support, color management, many features, Xrender fallback, GLes, EGL, Future GL3+ improvements]
2. Kwin sometimes suffer from being too far ahead cuz if you hit a render path bug/cpu fallback [nVidia is famous for those / FGLRX <-- total nightmare] it may require sometime to fix them at driver level
3. non-technical folks tend to blame kwin for it but almost 99% of the cases those slowdowns are driver faults[outdated in case of ubuntu unless you get them through PPA] or crappy patches in KDE [ubuntu have many slips here]
4. Best KDE experience come from Mesa drivers and distros like Slackware/Gentoo/Arch if you prefer binary distros OpenSuse/Debian unstable is very well maintained but ubuntu KDE is a luck thing maybe it works maybe is horrible
5. In Ubuntu sometimes is better to remove the whole kde-desktop packages and compile from sources and if you use blob drivers get an updated PPA for them[the same applies for Gnome 3]

[madjr]

if kubuntu stays on wayland or even X for a while longer, I see not much problems.

The KDE (and distros that use it) people need to solve their own stuff.

might even be interesting to see ubuntu on mir and kubuntu on wayland.

[Awesomeness]

i have little hope for KDE if that developer keeps being the main developer. KDE needs to find a new maintainer

He's not the main developer of KDE and you obviously don't even know what KDE is.

I am not talking about his childish whining rant against ubuntu. I am talking about his attitude towards performance and hardware support which he insist to deny.

Do a better job.

[valeriodean]

I think Martin is more annoyed than anything. He put a lot of work into getting KDE to function with Wayland and was probably relieved about the idea that ditching X was in-view, only to find that he may have completely wasted his time. When Canonical decided "meh wayland isn't that great, we're gonna make our own thing", Martin knows that due to Ubuntu's popularity, Mir may (eventually) gain more attention than wayland and therefore might be the official X replacement. This means Martin is going to have to get all of Mir to work, while still maintaining wayland and X. I don't blame him for having a pessimistic attitude, he didn't ask for this and AFAIK, he's not paid so maintaining 3 graphical servers must be a pain. He has enough work to do with KDE even if you disregard wayland.

I'm sure if Mir came out first, we wouldn't hear Martin complain. He'd probably still point out the flaws he sees in Mir now, but I'm sure he wouldn't be as pessimistic.

Pls, don't stop! Just let me take the popcorn!
What you think about the possibility that Martin will lose his role because too slow and too arrogant for prone himself and the KDE project in front of the Mir project?
:-)

[Akka]

Pls, don't stop! Just let me take the popcorn!
What you think about the possibility that Martin will lose his role because too slow and too arrogant for prone himself and the KDE project in front of the Mir project?
:-)

ehh? lose what?

//by the way, I was kinda surprised it's took so long time before phoronix wrote about this blog post. They are usually very fast with Graesslins blog posts.

[NaNaNa]

What you think about the possibility that Martin will lose his role because too slow and too arrogant for prone himself and the KDE project in front of the Mir project?
:-)

Oh, fuck off. Neither Wayland nor Mir are relevant in the short-to-medium term. It'll take years before X11 is displaced in any meaningful sense. (No matter which "side" you're on or how much you're rooting for them.)

[ворот93]

Meh, I don't really understand why Mark wrote the "all the faces of ubuntu" post in the first place. GNOME, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, whatever DE don't need Mir support. Ayatana team have openly stated that Mir satisfies their own needs and no one else's. Mir is not for KDE, it's for Unity, plain and simple.

On a side note, yes, Kubuntu, Xubuntu are solid distributions but Canonical should not scatter its own resources. They focus on Unity 8, good for them.

[pandev92]

Pls, don't stop! Just let me take the popcorn!
What you think about the possibility that Martin will lose his role because too slow and too arrogant for prone himself and the KDE project in front of the Mir project?
:-)

O possibilities

[Alex Sarmiento]

The Martin's approach to the Mir problem is pretty rational and logic, so there is no place for stupid speculation and fanboyism.
He explains very well that in KDE world, the compositor (Kwin) and the desktop shell are two separated entity. This means that they need to dialog in some way and this way is the so called protocol.

That is a technical issue, it is not on opinion about the free software philosophy or whatever.
Another question that came in my mind is: how can you extend something that is protocol-agnostic without break the compatibility somewhere in the process?
The Mir's fanboy can please explain how they think to overcame those problems?
Maybe asking to change the KDE architecture in something similar to Mir-Unity (half fusion between compositor and deshtop shell)?
LOL.
Or maybe agreeing on the Martin's hypothesis:

Sounds good?
Then why not to jump on the same logical conclusion:

ROLF

No, no no... You don't get it. NOBODY is asking him to support MIR. Kwin is irrelevant for Canonical, and that's it. NOBODY is asking his opinion about what Canonical is doing with MIR and Unity. There's no a protocol for other desktops because there's no need. He stated already that he is not interested on MIR, and with good reason since kwin is irrelevant .

Canonical decided, and is a good thing in my opinion, that they can not count on third party upstream projects that don't give a shit about anything else except their own projects, for instance , gnome shell and kde. Wayland, gnome and kde don't meet their goals, why should canonical follow them? that's makes no sense.

Furthermore, i think that canonical should forget about kde and gnome for good, and somehow distance themselves even more from the old school linux distro paradigm that consist on packing loosely related, unrelated or even conflicting upstream projects

This developer should concentrate his efforts on performance, hardware compatibility and resource usage, something that he demonstrated is not very interested on . He decided to go for waylaid, well, start working on that, KWIn is going to become irrelevant anyways.

[pandev92]

No, no no... You don't get it. NOBODY is asking him to support MIR. Kwin is irrelevant for Canonical, and that's it. NOBODY is asking his opinion about what Canonical is doing with MIR and Unity. There's no a protocol for other desktops because there's no need. He stated already that he is not interested on MIR, and with good reason since kwin is irrelevant .

Canonical decided, and is a good thing in my opinion, that they can not count on third party upstream projects that don't give a shit about anything else except their own projects, for instance , gnome shell and kde. Wayland, gnome and kde don't meet their goals, why should canonical follow them? that's makes no sense.

Furthermore, i think that canonical should forget about kde and gnome for good, and somehow distance themselves even more from the old school linux distro paradigm that consist on packing loosely related, unrelated or even conflicting upstream projects

This developer should concentrate his efforts on performance, hardware compatibility and resource usage, something that he demonstrated is not very interested on . He decided to go for waylaid, well, start working on that, KWIn is going to become irrelevant anyways.

if nvidia finally decided to give support only at wayland, would be very very fantastic to see the face of the egotistical ubuntu users, that doesn't understand nothing about technology and why server for graphics it's so importat, nobody care's about mir, if kde or gnome shell are concerned is because they think that exist the possibility that nvidia or amd doesn't give support for wayland, and this will be horrible for linux world. ( but I think that nvidia doesn't drop X support or free bsd support).