More Linux Utilities Come For USB Logitech Devices

[Kivada]

sooo how is it, owning only a Neo Freerunner?

So none of the machine from https://zareason.com/ , http://www.ohava.com/ , https://www.system76.com/ or https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ would qualify? Sure the Intel GPUs in the laptops would be craptacular for gaming, but the hardware would work.

[Kivada]

The problem with the majority of brands other than logitech is that they seem to target the gamer/neon looks cool crowd. And that spoils it for me.

I find aesthetics important.

Then do what I've done for forever, use your eons old mechanical keyboard you've had since your 286. http://imagebin.org/255734 It predates the Windows key and works just as well as when it was new.

[dee.]

Just so everyone can see what a nice person Sonadow is, here is what he sent me by PM.

That's all you have to claim? Lemme tell YOU this: I spent part of my youth in the military. I been through hell and back in there. Heck, I even served time in military prison before for getting into a fight. Where you were playing with your substances I was out there in the field getting the hell knocked out of me. When I got discharged I squandered all my savings and had to turn to my old parents to cough up the money to give me a college education so that I can hopefully find a job in spite of my record. Addiction? You only have YOURSELF and your life to blame, dude. At 29 years of age, I have already been to the deepest depths, much more than you can ever think of, and have already almost condemned myself with a record. And do you know how ti FEELS to have to depend on one's aging parents to provide you with the funds needed to complete an education and being fully aware that they are sacrificing their retirement money all in the hope that their son can one day succeed?

Let's stop your angry and misguided fanboi rant right here, period *cut to fit PM length*

So the people whom YOU associate with say that MS software is inferior = the whole world agrees that MS software is inferior. Spoken like someone who has never used a single Microsoft product over the last 5 years, where just about every single MS software product soundly puts its FOSS equivalent to shame in both polish and functionality.

Anti-competitive is just a new buzzword competition use to say that the incumbent should be thrown aside because they are not capable of competing on the same level.

Wow, you're so clueless. Also, a libertard? Figures... Try getting a clue as to what "anti-competitive" actually means. Have a dictionary at hand?

Here's a crash course for you. Anti-competitive action is when a market leader abuses their market position to artificially inhibit competition. The classic textbook example is, when a large company comes in town, sets up shop, and sells their widgets at a loss, until all their competition goes bankrupt due to not being able to compete with the prices. The large company has more capital at hand, so they can afford to stay longer in a price fight. Then, the large company gains a (local) monopoly and is able to dictate their prices however they want.

Obviously, this kind of situation is bad for the consumers, so laws have been made - pretty much everywhere in the civilized world - to try to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

In a nutshell, anti-competition is when you're not competing with the merits of your product/service, instead using other assets, like market position, capital, lobbying etc. to keep your competition away from the market so that you don't have to try to innovate and improve your product/service. This is exactly what microsoft has been doing.

Isn't it fun to learn things?

No it's not. The basis of my "malice" towards microsoft is the way they have used anti-competitive practices for the past decade. How they have cheated, lied, stolen and frauded their way to the top. *cut to fit PM length*

Right, and now you resort to the tired Secure Boot argument which Matthew Garette has already solidly and soundly debunked in the last exchange you had with him. Try something else. Or are you too incompetent to make a change to the UEFI menu? If Linux is so innovative and its users are much more intelligent than Windows users why are they finding it so difficult to change a UEFI setting that any Windows user can do in a second?

[/quote]

Hm, secure boot was only a part of my argument, what happened to the rest? Conveniently ignored, I assume? Also, matthew garret's word isn't the word of god, nor did he do any such thing.

More ad hominems, yawn. (Look it up in the dictionary!)

In what reality? Have you even seen windows 8 sales figures? No one really gives a shit about windows 8, or touchscreens on laptops (other than ms fanboi hipsters). It's a failure and doesn't drive any sales.

Come back when you actually READ through the contents of enough hardware and notebook forums from all over the world and not just your local forum + Phoronix.

Oh, I've read plenty. And pretty much everyone - who isn't a paid shill or astroturfer of microsoft - are saying that windows 8 SUCKS. The sales figures are horrible, they are worse than vista. These are facts, and all the whining you can emit will not change them.

Want links? I can post links.

http://www.economist.com/economist-asks/will-windows-8-be-failure

http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/technology/49765-windows-8-failure-equals-game-over-for-windows-pc

http://nvonews.com/2013/01/24/windows-8-failure-is-wake-up-call-for-microsoft-windows-8-vs-windows-7/

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-8/windows-8-failure-could-set-tech-industry-chain-reaction

Oh, now there are some secret, invisible market shares. You don't have any sources or evidence, but we should all trust you when you say so. Right.
Oh, and microsoft drives the global economy now. Riiight.

I don't have to make up values when I have seen the proof for myself. Whose system do you think powers the frontline operatings of virtually all enterprises?

You have seen... ok, let me get one thing straight. Personal experience does not count as "proof". Your personal experience is subject to confirmation bias and the sample size is way too low to make any kind of real conclusions. You see windows because you want to see windows and surround yourself with windows. Actual statistics are much more reliable than your personal experience, and actual statistics say you're wrong.

Everyone is moving away from microsoft. Microsoft is in trouble, their stock is falling, no one trusts them due to their years of lies and abuses. Suck it up, fanboy.

Actually, I have every right to judge the ethicality of whatever, as has everyone else. *cut to fit PM length.*

You have every right to an opinion, but not the right to pass opinion as fact. Which is exactly what you are doing. The only type of people who will attempt to draw a line between money and foul money are the people who have too much of it to begin with to the point where they feel the need to make that distinction. The amount of money the tobacco and oil companies have contributed to drive the global economy can outclass just about any other industry. By your 'holier than thou' standards, those industries deserve to close shop because they are unethical. Typical selfish thinking.

Im sorry that my discussion with you had to debunk this topic further from its original discussion; that's why I'm taking it to the PMs to prevent further OT-ing from my part, but that was the tipping point. Don't compare 'hardship' with me when you have the luxury of a clean record to see you through, because that is a huge berserk button in my dictionary.

[/quote]

First of all, moderators are here for a reason, if they come and say this discussion isn't appropriate here, that's fine. Are you a moderator? No? Then stop worrying about their jobs. I'm not afraid to say anything I want to say in public, and if you are, you should just shut up because I don't want your crap in my inbox.

Secondly, I have a right to an opinion, and I also have a right to state things that are facts, that I can provide evidence for. As I have. It's my opinion that microsoft is unethical. It is the opinion of many more people as well. It is a fact that microsoft has been condemned for unethical behaviour, many times, and has had to answer for its abuses in courts of law, many times.

Thirdly, you seem to have a weird, ultra-libertard view that corporations are allowed to do whatever they want, that there's no such thing as ethics. Well, if you feel like ethics are irrelevant, if you feel that it's ok to oppress people who are weaker, who are unable to defend themselves, then what can I say, you're probably a sociopath or suffering from PTSD or something. "Driving the economy" - that's not even an actual thing. You're buying hook, line and sinker the propaganda and PR these big corporations are shoving down our throats. No, we don't need to let corporations get away with anything they want simply because they bring money to "the economy". What does that even mean? We can do without unethical corporations. We don't need CEO's that get 400x the salary of their employees. We don't need the 1%, because trickle-down doesn't actually work, it's just a clever ruse invented by the superrich to justify their excess. And the sad part is, suckers like you keep parroting their propaganda, because you want to be on the big dog's side. Pathetic, truly pathetic.

[erendorn]

Same here. Logitech products are also overpriced for the build/component quality.

Well, I've bought and used many peripherals, including some not-so-durable logitech ones, but I'm currently using a MX Preformance mouse and the illuminated (non-wireless) keyboard for my main machine, and they are both awesome (excellent build, no issue whatsoever, track perfectly on my glass desktop, keyboard is quiet and responsive).

[Veerappan]

Microsoft IMO make really great hardware, I really love their natural series of keyboards and their explorer series of mice are fantastic. I currently use a Logitech mouse and only a couple of months after buying it the soft rubber bits started to peel off. When this mouse dies or I tire of it I will happily go back to a Microsoft mouse.

I agree completely that MS makes good input hardware. I've owned 4 MS Natural Elite keyboards (only one of which has died, due to beer spillage), and I've recently switched at work/home to the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000.

My Logitech mice have been nice. I had a Mouseman (rubber ball, no scroll wheel) that I only replaced because I wanted optical. I replaced that with a USB + Scroll wheel Logitech whose model number I don't remember. My MX518 was fine when I used it, and then 2.5-3.5 years ago I got a MX Revolution.

My ONLY complaint against the MX Revolution is that btnx, a GUI config tool for multi-button mice (including the MX Revolution), is not packaged as part of Ubuntu 12.04/12.10/13.04 anymore.

Instructions for building btnx yourself:

http://awesomelinux.blogspot.com/2012/12/btnx-for-ubuntu-1204-and-1210-and-beyond.html

[jhansonxi]

All manufacturers make good and bad products (except maybe Packard Bell which I found were universally bad in the USA). I have Logitech wireless keyboards and mice that were flimsy and broke. I have a M510 mouse and speakers that have been rather good and an Attack 3 joystick that didn't last long. HP scanners that lasted decades and printers that lasted only a few months. Many Tripp Lite and APC UPSs that seem to have a pre-determined death date (even with new batteries) while Belkin and CyberPower have been very reliable. I've had major name brand equipment fail early with little use and cheap OEM junk last so long I was reluctant to part with it in spite of obsolescence.

I don't have a problem in general with M$ hardware but I really hate their keyboard designs. I'm currently using an eMachines OEM keyboard but may replace it with a full mechanical keyboard in the future. The best I've used was a Northgate OmniKey and a Keytronics FlexPro (weird ergonomic contraption but I got used to it).

M$ mice don't impress me much and some of the Logitech models have proven to be fragile. I'm not picky and I notice a bad mouse much more than a good mouse. I often just use whatever is handy.

I've used many different Nvidia, AMD/ATI, and Intel video devices and some are useless on Linux while others are perfect. I've has similar results on Windows depending on the age of the hardware. Manufacturers usually have drivers for the current versions of Windows for all of their current hardware. Linux often has better drivers for older hardware but some devices are poorly supported regardless of age due to lack of manufacturer interest. But before I switched to Linux I recycled many devices over the years due to a lack of updated Windows drivers. Dial-up (POTS) softmodems were really irritating in that regard. Compare that to Ethernet NICs which often still come with MS-DOS and OS/2 drivers.

Pro gamers often use wired mice to avoid lag and interference during competitions. With keyboards they are primarily concerned about configuration and n-key rollover support: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29

Hopefully more advanced/gaming HIDs will be supported in the future due to Steam.

Regarding M$, Sony, etc. - large companies often have some divisions which are good and others that are evil or incompetent.

[erendorn]

By the way, kinda on topic, what site would you recommend to get and give recommendations on linux hardware support?

[jhansonxi]

By the way, kinda on topic, what site would you recommend to get and give recommendations on linux hardware support?

There are sites that attempt to track it across all distributions, and some distributions have their own test report pages. However, these are often outdated. I find more relevant info on the review pages of stores (like Newegg) and make it a point to post Linux-related product reviews on the sites I buy hardware from.

[Ericg]

Jesus Christ... Look at this place. I leave home for a couple of days and look what happens?

At the request of an interested third party (who shall remain nameless) who got sick and tired of seeing you three hiss and snap at eachother like territorial dogs, I'm stepping in, in whatever capacity i can....

Sonadow.... you shouldn't have sent that PM. Way out of line, and way un-necessary.

Dee.... you shouldn't have posted that PM. Its a "Private Message" for a reason. Want to yell at him for it? Good, do it in private.

GreatEmerald....you're actually be fairly levelheaded...keep it up.

Dee, you care about Microsoft's business practices and want to make a stand. Sonadow, you want your hardware to just work and have the best that you can have. Sorry guys, but you two ARENT gonna agree, EVER. You two may as well be arguing Democrats vs Republicans (for the non-US readers.. Liberals vs Conservatives).

The name-calling and harassment though, HAS TO stop. If I was in this conversation earlier BOTH of you would've been reported for harassment, but i figure the time has come and gone. This thread is over, I'd be locking it if I had Moderator rights, its been hijacked enough and taken WAY off base and off topic. Enough is enough guys. You want to rip into eachother? Fine, do it in private. Keep it out of everyone else''s forum updates and inboxs. And if you DONT care enough to do it in private, then just drop it completely. Its really not worth it, and this dick-measuring competition that seems to be going on is getting old fast.

If anyone wants to be all like "You're not our mother," "You're not responsible for us" or anything close to that.... I got pulled into this by a member of the community who was sick and tired of this flame war. Why? I'm not sure, but you're apparently pissing off enough OTHER people that they care. So knock it off before the ACTUAL Moderators get involved in this and put a more abrupt and poignant end to this whole thing.

[GreatEmerald]

Jesus Christ... Look at this place. I leave home for a couple of days and look what happens?

You're a bit too late, actually, the flame war ended 6 posts ago. Now let's not derail the thread further, shall we?