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Thread: Nouveau vs. NVIDIA Linux Comparison Shows Shortcomings

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  1. #1
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    Default Nouveau vs. NVIDIA Linux Comparison Shows Shortcomings

    Phoronix: Nouveau vs. NVIDIA Linux Comparison Shows Shortcomings

    One week after delivering updated Radeon Gallium3D vs. AMD Catalyst benchmarks on Ubuntu Linux, we have to share this morning similar results for the open-source and reverse-engineered "Nouveau" Linux graphics driver compared to the proprietary NVIDIA Linux graphics driver. While the Nouveau driver has come a long way and does support the latest Fermi and Kepler GPUs, it's not without its share of shortcomings. Eleven NVIDIA GeForce graphics cards were used in this latest Phoronix comparison.

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=18664

  2. #2
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    Nouvau is in need of more testing.
    Or maybe O.org fund can start building infra/hw/sw for automated tests accessible remotly for core mesa/kernel/x/wayland devs?

  3. #3
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    Default Wasted man power

    Nouveau is basically wasted man power. They really need documentation on how Nvidia graphic cards work if they want to make something remotely usable. A graphics card is not a simple piece of hardware as we all know.

    Radeon driver is in much better shape due to the fact that is partially backed by AMD and some of its engineers.

    Of course the Nouveau team is free to do whatever they want with their time, but in the end they will realise they have wasted a precious time in their life. People who want to use Nvidia for OpenGL and/or CUDA use Nvidia's binary driver. We all would like to have open source Nvidia drivers, because they make great graphics cards, but this is not going to work.

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    Oh yeah, the GT 240. It never worked with nouveau, and probably never will. Nouveau developers are ignoring all the bug reports and the proposed fix (disable all acceleration for this chipset - an unaccelerated framebuffer is still *much* better than an unbootable system).

  5. #5
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    The RE driver is very impressive for what it is and how it is made. That being said, the results illustrated here perfectly explain why I will never buy nvidia crap. At least not until they improve this situation dramatically.

    To address the hostile message by "wargames", this is not wasted effort, since it is about the only way to actually get ANY usability out of nvidia crap without running their virus. I'd much rather run nouveau, even at the significant performance hit, than a hostile blob. In fact, up until about a year ago when I retired my last nvidia hardware, I did just that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    The RE driver is very impressive for what it is and how it is made. That being said, the results illustrated here perfectly explain why I will never buy nvidia crap. At least not until they improve this situation dramatically.

    To address the hostile message by "wargames", this is not wasted effort, since it is about the only way to actually get ANY usability out of nvidia crap without running their virus. I'd much rather run nouveau, even at the significant performance hit, than a hostile blob. In fact, up until about a year ago when I retired my last nvidia hardware, I did just that.
    Lol don't like Nvidia don't buy/use thier hardware, simple... Nouveau is wasted effort. Use Intel if you want OSS drivers because that's all you'll get. I got a 670gtx with the blob that does what ever I want it to do. I also have a laptop with i5/HD4000 that's working properly "finally"and has good performance for what it is with the latest distos. All did not used to be well until the drivers caught up.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent View Post
    Oh yeah, the GT 240. It never worked with nouveau, and probably never will. Nouveau developers are ignoring all the bug reports and the proposed fix (disable all acceleration for this chipset - an unaccelerated framebuffer is still *much* better than an unbootable system).
    That's not a fix, it's a workaround. If you had a fix, we might just care.
    Myself I really don't care (well, I do, but not to the point where I'd do something about it), my ~2000 hours of wasted free time on this project would be even more wasted (on the personal level anyway) if I'd spent them with the annoying bugs of users with cards I don't have (which is the factor that makes fixing things really hard, but don't suggest sending cards to me I don't have the time or nerve), instead of focusing on the fun stuff. It's either progress or stability, and we seem to focus very much on progress over stability overall.

    Or how do you think we manage to keep up (in most areas) with the radeon drivers having no docs and a lot fewer contributors ? Of course, "no docs" is just an excuse, even with docs things wouldn't be moving along much faster at this point because there's no one there to do the time-consuming part, i.e. actually implementing things. That's their biggest advantage, AMD hires devs (and what ever happened to "the community will write the driver" ?)

    Ah, I'm getting more and more frustrated it seems. Maybe I really should just quit as wargames suggests ...
    Last edited by calim; 04-23-2013 at 01:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calim View Post
    Of course, "no docs" is just an excuse, even with docs things wouldn't be moving along much faster at this point because there's no one there to do the time-consuming part, i.e. actually implementing things.
    Then again, having docs may very well raise interest in the project. It wouldn't look like doing things blindly any more.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by calim View Post
    That's not a fix, it's a workaround. If you had a fix, we might just care.
    It's certainly a workaround if acceleration is important. But consider Live CDs and the like. These simply won't boot properly on these GPUs right now, so you can't even install a modern Linux-based OS! No acceleration is still preferable to crashing. I just don't see the point in not applying the workaround, after this has been broken for such a long time with no proper fixes in sight.

  10. #10
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    Wow, I didn't realise it was a developer! Oh my gosh...
    Michael should really post an article about this...


    Subliminal message: "We don't care if this driver works at all"
    Resolution: Workaround allows to work around the problem, so people can still work, waiting for a real fix. Ignoring workarounds equals to not caring about anyone who uses the software. Thats a kick in userbase butt.
    Quote Originally Posted by calim View Post
    That's not a fix, it's a workaround. If you had a fix, we might just care.

    Subliminal message: "We don't care about quality of this driver at all"
    Resolution: This is as "hobby" as it gets.
    Quote Originally Posted by calim View Post
    Myself I really don't care (well, I do, but not to the point where I'd do something about it), my ~2000 hours of wasted free time on this project would be even more wasted (on the personal level anyway)

    Subliminal message: "We don't care about Linux user base. They can go to hell."
    Resolution: If someone refuses even to accept free cards in order to make Linux more attractive to new users, he definately gives a brick about Linux userbase. Expect nothing even close to serious from this crowd. The code he pushes this way is "mess" in all forms.
    Quote Originally Posted by calim View Post
    Myself I really don't care (well, I do, but not to the point where I'd do something about it), my ~2000 hours of wasted free time on this project would be even more wasted (on the personal level anyway) if I'd spent them with the annoying bugs of users with cards I don't have (which is the factor that makes fixing things really hard, but don't suggest sending cards to me I don't have the time or nerve), instead of focusing on the fun stuff.

    Subliminal message: "Our driver will always be constantly broken"
    Resolution: -
    Quote Originally Posted by calim View Post
    It's either progress or stability, and we seem to focus very much on progress over stability overall.

    Subliminal message: "We don't code, we don't improve, we don't want to organize anything. We just hang around, breaking stuff for fun. And we like to make fun of AMD developers. Because, they, unlike us, actually write STABLE CODE. We - either write mess, or don't write anything. Hell, we better off watch TV drinkin beers. Linux sucks anyways --.. and not because of us! Rly."
    Resolution: -
    Quote Originally Posted by calim View Post
    Of course, "no docs" is just an excuse, even with docs things wouldn't be moving along much faster at this point because there's no one there to do the time-consuming part, i.e. actually implementing things. That's their biggest advantage, AMD hires devs (and what ever happened to "the community will write the driver" ?)


    Suggestion:
    Linus - Please REMOVE NOUVEAU out of kernel. Reiserfs is much more worthy of attention than this.
    Distributions - under NO WAY build or include nouveau. Use either VESA or nvidia. This is sure way to immediately kill your userbase with nvidia cards.
    Developers - unless you want to join Nvidia, its much better to join forces who actually CARE about code they write. That means on x86 - Intel or AMD.
    Nvidia users - under NO CIRCUMSTANCE donate your hardware to nouveau. Please, SELL it. At least, you will not waste your money.
    Last edited by brosis; 04-23-2013 at 09:41 PM.

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