Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 40

Thread: Manjaro: A Convenient Way To Play With Arch Linux

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    275

    Default

    I thought the Arch devs intend for the users to upgrade all packages together and that single package upgrades are not a supported practice. How does Manjaro keep this going if certain packages can migrate down the branches while others might get blocked?

    I'm more curious about why point-based releases are better for benchmarking, though. Does Ubuntu contain the entire default install in the install image, or does a default install still require pulling packages from the Ubuntu repos? Because if it's the later, isn't that kinda like being back to the same problem as that with a rolling release, that changes in the repository can make benchmark results unreproducible?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pejakm View Post
    So why the heck all that fuss about installing Arch when you will have to install it only once in a lifetime?
    Reading is hard. Let's go shopping!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Or read the newbe guide.
    Tried that, took me over two days and in the end it didn't boot. I will give Manjaro a shot and see if I have any better luck.

  4. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BW~Merlin View Post
    Tried that, took me over two days and in the end it didn't boot. I will give Manjaro a shot and see if I have any better luck.
    Don't. If you didn't manage to install arch, manjaro will break at some point and you'll have no idea how to fix it.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    I thought the Arch devs intend for the users to upgrade all packages together and that single package upgrades are not a supported practice. How does Manjaro keep this going if certain packages can migrate down the branches while others might get blocked?

    I'm more curious about why point-based releases are better for benchmarking, though. Does Ubuntu contain the entire default install in the install image, or does a default install still require pulling packages from the Ubuntu repos? Because if it's the later, isn't that kinda like being back to the same problem as that with a rolling release, that changes in the repository can make benchmark results unreproducible?
    Single-package upgrades aren't supported in Arch? If so, my only comment is Y-U-C-K!

    1- You don't need a network connection to install *buntu or Debian, unless you use the netboot installer (which you won't end up doing without knowing).

    2- A performance change DOES NOT go into a regular update: it's a feature, and features are for point releases.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibidem View Post
    Single-package upgrades aren't supported in Arch? If so, my only comment is Y-U-C-K!

    1- You don't need a network connection to install *buntu or Debian, unless you use the netboot installer (which you won't end up doing without knowing).

    2- A performance change DOES NOT go into a regular update: it's a feature, and features are for point releases.
    They are supported with some caveats, library updates that require apps to be recompiled are handled by recompiling the app against the new library and pushing out an update for the app and the library at once. If you only upgrade 1 or the other you can get mismatches which would make the app segfault or SYMBOL_NOT_FOUND or other errors.

    1) Arch will use a network connection if its available to DL the latest packages, if not there are the base packages on the ISO.
    2) Arch doesnt HAVE point releases so yes, performance updates are done as the updates are pushed down. Whatever upstream does, Arch does, its really that simple.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    They are supported with some caveats, library updates that require apps to be recompiled are handled by recompiling the app against the new library and pushing out an update for the app and the library at once. If you only upgrade 1 or the other you can get mismatches which would make the app segfault or SYMBOL_NOT_FOUND or other errors.

    1) Arch will use a network connection if its available to DL the latest packages, if not there are the base packages on the ISO.
    2) Arch doesnt HAVE point releases so yes, performance updates are done as the updates are pushed down. Whatever upstream does, Arch does, its really that simple.
    The last time I tried Arch in 2011 the base ISO did not contain any packages save for the basic bootstrap image and the curses-based installer. A network connection is pretty much mandatory. I have no idea how things are being done *now*, but it surely was the case in 2011.

    You'd think that all would go well after 1 hour of crying and coaxing my WiFi to work for installation, but immediately after that when running pacman to pull in all the standard packages (drivers, DEs, software applications, etc etc) as instructed by the newbie guide, everything just went belly up when pacman claimed to be unable to meet some dependencies for the i915 driver package and could not proceed with installation, leaving me with a system that had essentially garbage on it. Not fun at all. Went back to Fedora and had a working installation up in an hour.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    The last time I tried Arch in 2011 the base ISO did not contain any packages save for the basic bootstrap image and the curses-based installer. A network connection is pretty much mandatory. I have no idea how things are being done *now*, but it surely was the case in 2011.

    You'd think that all would go well after 1 hour of crying and coaxing my WiFi to work for installation, but immediately after that when running pacman to pull in all the standard packages (drivers, DEs, software applications, etc etc) as instructed by the newbie guide, everything just went belly up when pacman claimed to be unable to meet some dependencies for the i915 driver package and could not proceed with installation, leaving me with a system that had essentially garbage on it. Not fun at all. Went back to Fedora and had a working installation up in an hour.
    You must've picked the Net install iso, or selected the option in the ncurses install that the packages should be downloaded over the net. The Arch Devs have ALWAYS (Since 2010 when I found Linux and Arch) had an iso available that had the base set of necessary packages on disc because for a long time wifi adapters were very hit or miss under linux.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibidem View Post
    Single-package upgrades aren't supported in Arch? If so, my only comment is Y-U-C-K!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    They are supported with some caveats, library updates that require apps to be recompiled are handled by recompiling the app against the new library and pushing out an update for the app and the library at once. If you only upgrade 1 or the other you can get mismatches which would make the app segfault or SYMBOL_NOT_FOUND or other errors.
    Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant "supported" as in "officially supported", aka "feel free to file bugs against it or ask for help on the forums," in which case "unsupported" would be "you can do that if you want, but don't ask for help if something breaks."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibidem View Post
    1- You don't need a network connection to install *buntu or Debian, unless you use the netboot installer (which you won't end up doing without knowing).
    Thanks for clearing that up. I knew about Debian, but I wasn't sure about Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibidem View Post
    2- A performance change DOES NOT go into a regular update: it's a feature, and features are for point releases.
    I think, if packages need to be pulled from internet repos, the problem in general is more about not being able to maintain a control test environment. Changes in package versions can result in inadvertent performance changes, regardless of specific nuances of a distro's packaging policy. A use case for control environments in benchmarking can be, say, an upstream developer wishes to track his/her progress in performance optimizations over a multi-year period - in that case, it's more informative to use the exact same target system for benchmarking against.

    But I guess that problem can be solved by snapshot images of the repos. In fact, that fixes the problem with rolling release distros, too.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    346

    Default

    pacman -Syu upgrades the whole system pacman -S package name upgrades a program.. You don't have to upgrade and in fact can make your own packages if you only want certain things!!! Arch isn't hard, it's a good distro that gets undue praise and ridicule. Gentoo, slackware and arch are 3 very awesome distros that scare people with reputation. Want to see? Try them out it's free.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •