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Debian 7.0 "Wheezy" To Release In Early May

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    So you mean that no "regular" user wants to have a system that is as bug-free as possible? And that the long development phase that Debian has for exactly this purpose is kind of a waste of time? Like removing about 1500 bugs that were considered release-critical by the Debian team in the last 4 months? Tip: Go to the Debian forum and ask how many "regular" users are running Debian Stable, you will be surprised.

    openSuse does not fit into that list, they do not have such a short release cycle as ubuntu or fedora have, a release cycle that is shorter than the Beta/freezing phase of distros that are considered to be stable. And a distro like Ubuntu, that releases at a fixed date, no matter in which state the distro is, can't be considered to be stable.

    Sure, that must be the reason why Canonical recommended to their LTS users not to upgrade to 12.04 LTS (by the way, besides the default package selection there is no difference between the desktop and server edition) before the first point release. Just because they knew already that they have released a buggy product and have shifted the beta-phase after the release date. Guess what people that need a stable system think about such a behavior, when the release date and being in the news is more important than stability or a low bug-count. You know that the LTS releases are derived from Debian Testing, but without the freeze-phase to get rid of the (again, about 1500 release-critical only in the last 4 months) bugs? And you think it is hard to label an LTS release as buggy or unstable?

    Read my post again, I have not called you a geek, I have talked about the image seen from Windows users.
    By debian's ultraconservative standards, any other distro is buggy and unstable, except maybe a Redhat or SUSE desktop/workstation/server, which by the way , are much better options if you really want a really reliable, stable, bugfree , officially and professionally supported (not like the highly unfriendly and unresponsive debian forum) linux distribution. Heck, even centos and scientific linux are more user friendly and at least ubuntu offers professional customer support. By the way, i didn't know that kde 4.4 was so bug free an reliable, and gnome 3.4 ?

    IDK,,, Debian feels like the Cuba of the linux world.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by crapI3SD
      debian sucks because of thier kfreebsd-port

      go ubuntu
      Ah, the antiBSD troll is back, still to dumb to use spell-checking.

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      • #23
        It's about time. Then Debian can refocus on progress and fix the broken GNOME 3.4, 3.6, and now 3.8 that they keep halfway dumping out into Experimental.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
          Ah, the antiBSD troll is back, still to dumb to use spell-checking.
          I love FreeBSD and OS X back to my NeXT/Apple work days, but I always cringe when someone comments about spell-checking when they use the wrong connotation of to when it should be too.

          ``Ah, the anti-BSD troll is back, still too dumb to use spell-checking?''

          No amount of interpreted spell-check on-the-fly will ever replace grammatical flaws.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by crapI3SD
            debian sucks because of thier kfreebsd-port

            go ubuntu
            Ubuntu doesn't exist without Debian.

            Thankfully, Debian is schrewd enough to see the future of compilers: LLVM/Clang and making sure their other projects are ready to go so they can offer two paths: GCC and/or LLVM/Clang.

            I for one cannot wait to see when the entire GCC creap is out of a distribution.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
              So you mean that no "regular" user wants to have a system that is as bug-free as possible? And that the long development phase that Debian has for exactly this purpose is kind of a waste of time? Like removing about 1500 bugs that were considered release-critical by the Debian team in the last 4 months?
              This is kind of the catch 22 of using *any* current Linux desktop whether you choose to accept it or not there is currently no Linux desktop that just works. Whenever you stray of the beaten track you are bound to hit some unexpected behaviour or old time corner case bug. In the words of my non-technical wife "Linux is ok but some things just don?t work as well as in windows" in other words it lacks polish.

              Getting back to the point of my post, as someone who contributes bug fixes to any bug that annoys me enough (and is not to highly technical, usually I stick to the Gnome environment level Nautilus, Gedit, GTK, GVFS, GLIB etc) trying my best to add that polish that the majority of paid developers seem to not see as high priority I generally only have the time to contribute to the latest versions of software. Back porting introduces all kinds of issues. So for me and my wife a system that is as bug-free as possible is usually an up to date distro with mine/and others polish applied.

              My point is just because a system is stable does not necessarily make is the most bug free, in fact being stable actually prevents may bugs from being fixed. I would love the linux desktop to be in a state where using a stable distro would not make my eyebrows twitch in frustration once a hit seemingly stupid bug for the thousandth time but currently I have not found this to be so.

              Anyway I seem to be rambling on, and I do except that Debain might be perfect for some peoples workflow, I just wanted to point out that there are pro's and con's to both stable and more frequent release distros it really comes down to your workflow as to which is more bug-free.

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              • #27
                Basically Debian Wheezy is a good base for a distribution. You can do lots of things with it - depending if you want binary compatibilty or not you can install libc6 from experimental and then even Steam games run (that's what i did for the Kanotix CeBIT Special). Of course it is possible to combine it with new mesa code as well, in my mesa repo for wheezy i have got currently mesa 9.1.1+ (git snapshot with uvd), but this snapshot does not really fully satisfy me for radeon oss. Compared to squeeze the distro is now multiarch which has several consequences, like you need to use 32 bit tools for skype, teamviewer and wine. Btw. Kanotix has wine 1.5.28 right now, also kernel 3.9rc7+uvd (if you install it from the repo), so compared to Ubuntu 13.04 it is definitely not outdated, maybe KDE 4.8.4 is a bit older, but KDE looks 95% the same over all versions.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
                  Ubuntu doesn't exist without Debian.

                  Thankfully, Debian is schrewd enough to see the future of compilers: LLVM/Clang and making sure their other projects are ready to go so they can offer two paths: GCC and/or LLVM/Clang.

                  I for one cannot wait to see when the entire GCC creap is out of a distribution.
                  That will be the day Intel and AMD will introduce property extensions and modules for instructions.

                  There's a reason the cpu and gpu manufacturers are backing LLVM. It's modularity and license means you can maintain property code closed source with little to no effort. You think closed source drivers are a problem now ? Wait until you'll have closed source compiler dependencies for cpu kernel code...
                  I personally would like to see the GCC guys fork LLVM and GPL3 a new libc. Then make the thing so incompatible with the BSD in such a fundamental way it will be impossible to close source instructions sets. I think introducing compiler level features like runes and adding a really good GPLed threading library everyone would use should be enough to stop the creeping close-sourcing of linux.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Kano View Post
                    Basically Debian Wheezy is a good base for a distribution. You can do lots of things with it - depending if you want binary compatibilty or not you can install libc6 from experimental and then even Steam games run (that's what i did for the Kanotix CeBIT Special). Of course it is possible to combine it with new mesa code as well, in my mesa repo for wheezy i have got currently mesa 9.1.1+ (git snapshot with uvd), but this snapshot does not really fully satisfy me for radeon oss. Compared to squeeze the distro is now multiarch which has several consequences, like you need to use 32 bit tools for skype, teamviewer and wine. Btw. Kanotix has wine 1.5.28 right now, also kernel 3.9rc7+uvd (if you install it from the repo), so compared to Ubuntu 13.04 it is definitely not outdated, maybe KDE 4.8.4 is a bit older, but KDE looks 95% the same over all versions.
                    Kano, you have a mesa repo for Wheezy?

                    I was looking for something like that, how come I didn't know? Where is it?

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      Excellent!

                      I can upgrade my work computer, but I'm mostly excited by the fact that testing and unstable will be unlocked again. It was getting kind of stale
                      My first thought too =

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