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Thread: Ouya Game Console Performance Is Disappointing

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squarepusher View Post

    Seriously son - time to wake up and smell the coffee - you are no longer 'Number 1' in anything.
    Me thinks they are in one thing: the most hated country..

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    If you don't like it then compete.... It's that simple.... The US is by far the number one producer of media. Create your own Movies, Music, Art, Games, Novels, etc, etc. If you think your way is better then proliferate it. Start producing and stop bitching.
    Hmm, if one observes nations objectively one can see that USA is like a narcissist psychopat. He blackmails, he bribes, he lies, he makes threats in order to control and dominate. He is hated by some and more or less adored by the rest. He thinks he is superior and far above the rest.

    Someone in university should do a doctorate thesis of that.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squarepusher View Post
    That is called parasitical behavior - and frankly I find it surprising that a site like Phoronix that likes to brand themselves as 'open source Linux' fans would tolerate that kind of behavior and why they haven't banned you yet just for stating this out loud.
    Because it would be censoring him. That behavior is allowed by the licenses, it is just you not liking that behavior. I doubt that we should censor anyone just because he does things you don't appreciate. He does not tell lies about you, no slander, so a ban would simply be not legitimate.
    In fact, Phoronix is very lenient with that, on many other forums you would have been banned for calling him a fat ass, mental insane, parasitic, for disrespecting anyone you answer to with calling them son or junior (you can save yourself to the time to type son or junior if you answer me, I am most likely older than you), even if they ask you not to do that because it is in fact disrespectful, and clearly shows that you have to boost your ego to feel superior to anyone else here, which is quite funny, since you know no one here personally.
    You have to heighten yourself above people you don't even know, which is really sad and says much more about you than you think.

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vim_User View Post
    Because it would be censoring him.
    It is not as if you have any problems with censorship you hypocritical dipshit - read your earlier posts and see how much of a fool you just made yourself look right now

    Nobody but you is talking about the GPL here.

    Besides that, after your pathetic and criminal outburst (accusing the OpenBSD people to be the Boston bombers) I am surprised that you are still allowed to post on this forum.
    That is what you said, right there. So STFU about 'censorship' already when you have zero problems with 'censorship'.

    That behavior is allowed by the licenses, it is just you not liking that behavior.
    Ie. you people on Phoronix are sellout pieces of shit trying to 'hide' behind legalese to justify toxic, fraudulent behavior. Thanks for confirming that. I will now try to steer clear of Larabel's site as much as I can since the behavior and ideology of the people on this site is toxic shit.

    Pathetic little MBA conmen living in Europe/America that 'think' they will become the next 'big startup' by making games with pathetic graphics and even more pathetic gameplay AND (here is the key) GETTING RICH OFF RIPPING OFF GPL'ED GAME ENGINES WHOLESALE. Dude - hate to break it to you - but the entire lot of you will be facing foreclosure within two years after the bubble has burst on your 'indie' asses.

    You are either a sellout or you are not - you are either a disgusting maggot piece of shit or you are not. And you lot that think 'the license allows the behavior' are just that - maggot pieces of shit. Kindly fuck off and get your ass out of the 'software engineering' industry already so the world can be a better place for all of us - you have no morals, no integrity, no backbone, no nothing - and you should get out and get lost .

    I doubt that we should censor anyone just because he does things you don't appreciate.
    Read the above you hypocritical dipshit where you are CALLING FOR SOMEBODY TO BE BANNED because he says things you don't appreciate. Egg in your face there.

    He does not tell lies about you, no slander, so a ban would simply be not legitimate.
    Selective reading much?

    In fact, Phoronix is very lenient with that, on many other forums you would have been banned for calling him a fat ass, mental insane, parasitic, for disrespecting anyone you answer to with calling them son or junior (you can save yourself to the time to type son or junior if you answer me, I am most likely older than you),
    Dude, other people said far worse stuff here on this thread, so stop with the 'selective interpretation' already. So far I didn't tell anybody to 'die' - which a couple of the buttbuddies you support did. So much for others being 'respectful' - you reap what you sow.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 04-23-2013 at 11:23 AM.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnolsen View Post
    Wow this thread went way off the deep end. Went from a semi civil discussion to a slugfest. From my experience writing high performance multi-threaded stuff, both desktop and server space I've always found java to be wanting. It just compromises too much and it's not that good a language. With all its warts c++ has been flexible enough to fit totally different programming paradigms. c++-11 is great, another huge boost. java doesn't stand this same test of time. Garbage collection is just pure fad. It's been a non issue in c++ programs for a very long time.
    Yes, this thread has mostly devolved into pure garbage.

    Your comment is civil but I completely disagree.

    I used to do a ton of work on production apps doing high performance concurrent programming in C++: first threads are typically *way* slower than asynchronous programming. On C++/Windows, I used what Microsoft called IOCP (completion ports). On *nix/C++ the TCP select api has async logic. I saw dramatic performance increases going from threads to async. We ultimately did use threads, but just one thread per CPU core. The primary concurrency mechanism was async logic.

    A lot of people are using node.js for high performance async development. And, that uses the JavaScript language which is not known for high performance.

    Java has the netty library for async development. Scala has much more elegant syntax for async development.

    See multi-language high performance server benchmarks here:
    http://www.techempower.com/blog/2013...works-round-2/

    I don't think GC is a problem for server or high performance concurrent programming. Google writes much of their services in Java, and they are known for super responsive server apps.

    I'm skeptical that GC is a problem in games. Even if it were a problem, you can remove or minimize any memory allocations that happen in your inner render loop. Java games like Wakfu seem to be completely responsive and performant.

    I was comfortable with manual memory allocation in C++. GC isn't one of the important features to me in Java/Scala.

  6. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLamb View Post

    I'm skeptical that GC is a problem in games.
    That's because you can't even run logcat so that you can 'see' how much milliseconds it is stalling per minute.

    It's also because in your deluded mind, you think that the second core will just 'mask away' those millisecond pummelings and that therefore nothing is inherently bad about it. This will never, ever, ever be the case on Android - stop deluding yourself and face 'reality' - the current-day reality is that ,NO, the second core DOES NOT PICK UP THE SLACK - your framerate STILL gets pummeled.

    if you still deny that, go inform those Ouya 'devs' on that forum about how the 'millisecond upon millisecond upon milliseconds' delays they are experiencing are not 'really real' and that 'they are just using Java wrong'. You are totally deluded if you think this is not an 'issue'. Go back to your enterprise job where you might actually have a chance in hell to know what you are talking about.

    Even if it were a problem, you can remove or minimize any memory allocations that happen in your inner render loop. Java games like Wakfu seem to be completely responsive and performant.
    Wakfu is an insignificant overhead 2D bitmap strategy game that could have been done on a PS2 technically (or even lower). You might as well hold up Quake 2 while you're at it again as a great posterboy for 'Java'.

    Minecraft, Wakfu, a run-off-the-mill Quake 2 port - some great 'posterchilds' you have for your 'toy language'.

    I was comfortable with manual memory allocation in C++. GC isn't one of the important features to me in Java/Scala.
    GC is a total non-issue with C++11. While technically it is possible to do GC-style 'cleanup' in C++11, nobody needs or wants GC at all nor is it a 'feature' anybody should be proud of having in a language. It is mostly there in Java for inferior programmers who don't want to do it 'the right way'. It is not something anybody should be trumpeting.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 04-23-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanLamb View Post
    Yes, this thread has mostly devolved into pure garbage.

    Your comment is civil but I completely disagree.

    I used to do a ton of work on production apps doing high performance concurrent programming in C++: first threads are typically *way* slower than asynchronous programming. On C++/Windows, I used what Microsoft called IOCP (completion ports). On *nix/C++ the TCP select api has async logic. I saw dramatic performance increases going from threads to async. We ultimately did use threads, but just one thread per CPU core. The primary concurrency mechanism was async logic.

    See multi-language high performance server benchmarks here:
    http://www.techempower.com/blog/2013...works-round-2/
    So we're back to the fun of me offering a theoretical working solution where people have the freedom to chose what language to use which gives them what they want vs the option of forcing programmers into using a JVM not matter what. Are you voting for locking out people who want to use low level because you are beating your JAVA/JVM drum????

    The server I was working on was initially written back ending microsoft's terraserver for extracting, mosaicking and reprojecting ortho mosaics on the fly. Not your typical high transaction database type website. At this level async, thread overhead is totally irrelevant, the code path, memory allocation and management, socket cross talk becomes significant. That was back in the days of java7 so that's why I'm not going to argue much about the merits of those languages. Current high performance work is for multisensor digital payloads including digital cameras, lidar, etc. Sensor internal and external calibration, geometric trajectory correction etc, least squares systems, radiometric correction, on and on. Some of my work involves aggressive paging and in memory compression so I don't blow out 128GB ram.

    My partner a year or so ago did some work transferring technology to another party and worked some with c#. His experience was that simple semi low level operations using matrices, etc were close with c++. But when he started chaining things together to do something useful with these low level operations the difference in performance started to heavily favor the c++ side. And the equation formulation, readabilty, etc was worse with c#, not to mention VM overhead and memory use. I'm not sure about java today but I know c# treats "stack" classes different form "heap" classes and that caused untold amounts of grief for him as well.

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    But what if in the next version things improve all the while I don't have to do anything and the framerate improves? What if they do move the GC to other core without me doing anything. I was just looking at Blackberry in order to port my game to their platform. Guess what? If it's written in Java I just need to repackage my application in their .bar format all the while people that use the NDK thus C++ are in a world of pain if they want to move their application from Android to Blackberry because there is no easy way to do so
    Lulz.

    It took me one day to port RetroArch to Blackberry - note - as a 'native app' - look ma - no Java - no 'Android NDK app' running on Blackberry.

    So if your codebase is non-shit it is as easy as 1 day or even a few hours.

    This is why you stick your codebase to C99/C++98 whenever possible (note - you make it compilable as C++98 as well so that MS' compilers get a piece of the action as well - and fall back on C99 for everything else) - so your codebase is easy as hell to port to anything under the sun. You don't have to rely on 'Blackberry' to 'implement' some Dalvik VM in a jailcell - you can just 'port as-is' with optimum performance instead of having to run your app in a non-optimal VM.

    You are simply 'doing it wrong' and 'doing it inoptimally' if you think you need Java to write 'portable code'.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 04-23-2013 at 12:25 PM.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squarepusher View Post
    It is not as if you have any problems with censorship you hypocritical dipshit - read your earlier posts and see how much of a fool you just made yourself look right now



    That is what you said, right there. So STFU about 'censorship' already when you have zero problems with 'censorship'.


    Read the above you hypocritical dipshit where you are CALLING FOR SOMEBODY TO BE BANNED because he says things you don't appreciate. Egg in your face there.
    I do not want him banned because I don't like what he posts, I want him banned because he uses slander and openly accuses the OpenBSD people to be terrorists. And you talk to me about selective reading?
    Disqualifying yourself is a thing that you are really good at, as it seems.
    Anyone can see that you are an asshole, but that doesn't mean that you should be censored, or anyone else, as long as you are not going the criminal way, as this antiBSD troll did several times, but BO$$ not, he is, like you, just the usual troll.

    Ie. you people on Phoronix are sellout pieces of shit trying to 'hide' behind legalese to justify toxic, fraudulent behavior.
    Oh wait, here you crossed the line, you are accusing people here of fraud, now come up with evidence for that or STFU, because this is slander otherwise.

    Pathetic little MBA conmen living in Europe/America that 'think' they will become the next 'big startup' by making games with pathetic graphics and even more pathetic gameplay AND (here is the key) GETTING RICH OFF RIPPING OFF GPL'ED GAME ENGINES WHOLESALE. Dude - hate to break it to you - but the entire lot of you will be facing foreclosure within two years after the bubble has burst on your 'indie' asses.
    I am not a developer, so you can't mean me with that outburst, but when you think that using GPL'ed engines for something that actually brings the developers some money is a rip-off then you are clearly a zealot that doesn't even understand the GPL. If you think that there is a license violation then go and report that to the appropriate place, there are people that are interested in that. Otherwise you should better say nothing, since you make a fool of yourself (too late, but anyways).

    You are either a sellout or you are not - you are either a disgusting maggot piece of shit or you are not. And you lot that think 'the license allows the behavior' are just that - maggot pieces of shit.
    So using the license in the way it is written is only good if you approve that it is in the way that you think is right, otherwise people using the licenses are maggots? Man, you are pathetic.

    Kindly fuck off and get your ass out of the 'software engineering' industry already so the world can be a better place for all of us - you have no morals, no integrity, no backbone, no nothing - and you should get out and get lost .
    I am not a software engineer, so you can't mean me with that, but I have a question for you. You are a developer of an emulator. BO$$ is a game developer. How would he quitting game developing make the world a better place for a developer of an emulator? How would make it emulating proprietary platforms (there goes your higher moral) easier or better for you?
    Besides that, you know nothing about me, so you judging my morals, integrity or backbone is again just another pathetic attempt to place your own ego on a higher ground. You really seem to need that.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnolsen View Post
    ... vs the option of forcing programmers into using a JVM not matter what. Are you voting for locking out people who want to use low level because you are beating your JAVA/JVM drum????
    I was trying to point out that some of the anti-Java comments in this thread are simply unreasonable and not true.

    I never even implied "locking out people who want to use low level". That is unreasonable to accuse me of that.

    Android does impose Java/Dalvik in some ways, but they definitely let you do a lot with the NDK and C/C++/Renderscript as well.

    Google has clearly tried to accommodate different developer preferences. I understand they did not do so to your satisfaction, but I believe they actually give you much more choice than iOS, and they just can't please everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by bnolsen View Post
    I'm not sure about java today but I know c# treats "stack" classes different form "heap" classes and that caused untold amounts of grief for him as well.
    That's usually touted as a C# benefit. Why would that cause problems? C++ can do stack allocation or heap allocation as well.

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