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Thread: The Wayland/Weston Fork Is Now "Banned"

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dh04000 View Post
    A clear violation of journalistic rigor and ethics.
    Larabel is not a journalist. He is a blogger. Arguably freedom of the press does not apply to him and the publishing of Moreau's emails may not be entirely legal, not that it matters when it's all about the page clicks.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
    Well, that's certainly possible but if he suffers from clinical depression, he should seek professional help. Depression is a real and serious illness that needs to be treated accordingly and moreover is nothing to be ashamed of.

    However, "the internet" is not professional help and it's not our, Michael's, or the Wayland devs' duty to care for his treatment. Even a depressed adult is still an adult who can come up with the realization that he needs professional help.
    Never said it's anything to be ashamed of - you're hearing it from someone who is clinically depressed for over 15 years . The difficulty when dealing with people who are depressed or have some other disorder is to grant them space, even when you know you are right or have the consensus of the group. You/we have to be responsible for how he/she will interpret what -you/we- say - and that is a level of responsibility that isn't commonly assumed, particularly in online communication. I talk (i.e. write) here as if I would converse with you in person - no difference.

    We recently saw what happened - and I won't mention the act or this very smart guy's name - when people push other people... sometimes what you say is the straw that breaks the camel's back. Do you really want to live with that?

    Edit: Most people who are depressed have no idea they actually are - so it's difficult to come to a realization that "I am depressed" unless you hit rock bottom with how you are manifesting said depression in reality. Usually it takes the constant nagging of a loved one for you to do something, someone who is close to the person and knows him or her well - would be best able to observe their mood changes and the impact this has on their life. Then the hard part comes - having the person deal with the situation.... and you tell me if asking for help has ever been easy for anyone, particularly intelligent people who think they can boil the ocean by their own self .
    Last edited by MartinN; 04-03-2013 at 01:33 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    Larabel is not a journalist. He is a blogger. Arguably freedom of the press does not apply to him and the publishing of Moreau's emails may not be entirely legal, not that it matters when it's all about the page clicks.
    This has been widely arguement before(I watched a debate on this topic on CNN once, so national level), and the concenus from the journalist/blogger field overall is that there is no difference in expected ethics and rigor between the too.

  4. #64
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    I feel for the Wayland folks. I'm part of an open source project that had the same issue. There are some very poisonous people out there who become drains on open source projects.

    "Patches welcome, or fork" is a good policy on these kinds of things. If they continue, a ban is always an option as long as you have a general / rough concensus of the community.

    There is a *great* google tech talk on this very subject with examples from the svn developers:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52kFL8zVoM

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by soreau View Post
    You see, I've been depressed for a long time living in apartments. Apartment life sucks. It is depressing and in-real-life frustrations often come out through IRC. IRC has helped me develop social skills I might otherwise have not developed. IRC has allowed me a way to cope by finding small rewards
    What you need to do is and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way to get therapy.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimA View Post
    +1

    I'm a daily Phoronix reader and lover, and I respect Michael. I actually kind of like how he is different from other journalists. But this was a huge mistake. If Michael doesn't like the guy or his attitude, he should have just ignored him. Even if Scott deserved some public emberassment, news sites just don't do that!
    If you were the subject of a newspaper story and you later offered the reporter money to write additional favorable news stories about you, I guaruntee the reporter would publicly shame you. Unless he/she was corrupt, of course. Phoronix has flaws, to be sure, but if anything it would have been unethical for Michael *not* to tell us about those emails.

  7. #67
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    Default Be nice

    blackiwid, please stop arguing about your use of the word "psychopath". It was never productive.

    ворот93, please don't call anybody "sociopathic children" without some solid evidence of their psychiatric state and age.

    I bring this up only because deleting these posts hasn't gotten it to stop. If you feel a need to discuss moderation, please pick a more appropriate sub-forum, or private messages, not this thread. I'm just trying to make it a little more readable.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darxus View Post
    blackiwid, please stop arguing about your use of the word "psychopath". It was never productive.

    ворот93, please don't call anybody "sociopathic children" without some solid evidence of their psychiatric state and age.

    I bring this up only because deleting these posts hasn't gotten it to stop. If you feel a need to discuss moderation, please pick a more appropriate sub-forum, or private messages, not this thread. I'm just trying to make it a little more readable.
    This does not make it any more readable IMO. Either the article (and hence the discussion) should not have existed in the first place, or the discussion should not have been mindlessly censored.

    I can't see anything wrong with that "psychopath" thing. It was not an insult, and not intended as anything offensive at all. In fact, having read all these discussions, I consider it one of the very few attentive, rational, constructive things written here. It is quite clear that Scott is suffering from a mental disorder, and pointing it out is the best thing that could be done here. If more people realized it soon enough, it could have prevented the really insensitive things done here by many people, like calling him a liar (yes, technically he is, but mental illness is to blame, he has shown multiple times that he has trouble distinguishing reality from delusion), a troll, being angry with him or ridiculing him by quoting things he has written on IRC and elsewhere. Even Michael's articles could have been different - even though I do not mind publishing personal e-mail conversation in exceptional cases (like offering kickbacks), again, Michael should have realised (by reading all the confused, crazy e-mails) that it's not some "regular" villain he's dealing with, but a person who is simply ill. So the articles should have been written differently, if at all.

    Now, to me, that's the only really interesting thing about this whole affair: there are people with mental disorders, and in rare cases, they can get into a group of people working on a project undetected (where did the initiation control fail?), even stay there for some time, and cause a big mess. The question is how to handle these rare cases. Now, first, it must be properly recognised, then it must be properly called. Then it can be properly handled. Which means censoring the call (because it's "not nice") is not the answer.

    To me, if there was anything useful about the case of Scott Moreau, it was:

    1. Warn people who do not know Scott Moreau that if they consider working with him, they should think twice, as it can be dangerous (that's why I think Michael's publication of the e-mails was OK)
    2. Thinking about dealing with people with mental disorders, and about their place in society


    Therefore, anything that discusses these issues is IMO on-topic here, and does not make the forum less readable. After all, articles covering this Northwood drama are not primarily about the the technical things either.

  9. #69
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    yes, technically he is, but mental illness is to blame, he has shown multiple times that he has trouble distinguishing reality from delusion
    Ok, just a couple of questions. Are you a licensed psychiatrist? Do you have telepathic powers that allow you to perform a diagnosis of someone you never met over the internet?

    If the answer to either question is "no", then I'm afraid you have no business making any kind of assumptions about other people's sanity or lack thereof.

    The same goes for every other kitchen psychologist in this thread, as well.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Ok, just a couple of questions. Are you a licensed psychiatrist? Do you have telepathic powers that allow you to perform a diagnosis of someone you never met over the internet?

    If the answer to either question is "no", then I'm afraid you have no business making any kind of assumptions about other people's sanity or lack thereof.

    The same goes for every other kitchen psychologist in this thread, as well.
    I'd rather think someone has a mental disorder than is just a deliberate arsehole and that he could go get help. Let's just say he has shown signs of a possible disorder and should go see someone professionally, since we can't tell much more.

    I don't think psychopath is correct anyways there a lot of undiagnosed psychopaths out there doing very well for themselves would they ever visit a psych outside of jail? Probably not, but you should still feel free to point out their behaviour is psychopathic behaviour!

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